Phantom 1.025 from the lead.

[The Tsar]

Yeah. Explain to me how Cavaliers have been consistently beating PR like a cheap Italian whore in music for the last, oh, 20 years.

I was generous to PR before, then I see the mindset of a PR alum from my era of marching Cavaliers, and remember why we all thought your corps sucked. Bad attitudes.

But hey, how about a new slogan for your anniversary year. "Phantom Regiment: 50 years, .5 championships"

Wow. This is incredibly arrogant and rude of you...sorry to hear you are a Cavalier FMM, because like it or not, people are going to associate your boorish behaviour with your corps, even if it is just subconsciously. I don't think I have ever seen a more abrasive, arrogant, and idiotic post. Glad to be able to ignore you now.

[Matt_S]

Hmm, I've stayed out of the phray, but I'll offer at least this. I enjoy listening to the Cavaliers shows far more than I enjoy listening to Phantom. That's true of most every year, with 1996 being the one clear exception and with 2003 and 1989 being close as both corps were really great those years.

That's not to put Phantom down, because actually in the 2000's there's not a single corps I enjoy more than the Cavaliers - yes, even when we're talking about just music. So to me, comments like "The Cavaliers don't play music" are absurd. If they weren't playing music, or if they were sacrificing music for the visual, why am I and so many others still so clearly entertained?

The answer is that there is worth there, even if it's a subjective worth. The designers for the Cavaliers create shows, and music, that they enjoy and that they think will entertain. Judging by how I feel, and the words I hear from others who feel the same, I think they have been quite successful. Heck, my roommate's favorite show, bar none, is Four Corners, and while he's not near the drum corps superfan that I am, he'll still ask me to pop it in while we're out driving around. Frameworks is still my favorite (though i can't wait to hear the changes to Machine) and I get as emotional listening to the audio of that show as I do when listening to a classic like Madison 1995, probably the only other show that can choke me up.

So why do some continue to say that the Cavaliers don't play music? My only guess is that it's because music is undeniably subjective. It affects us all in different ways. I found Santa Clara to be absolutely stunning from 1998-2003, while I know of several posters on here who consider those shows to be a jumbled mess. Conversely, I was sorely disappointed when SCV dropped that style for their 2004 and 2005 shows, while many found them to be the most enjoyable SCV has put out in over a decade. in each year, what SCV was playing was indeed music, and in each year they were trying to entertain with their music. Each year they succeeded, but they suceeded with a different target crowd. Some years I was included in that target, others I was not.

Now, so many on these boards also love Phantom Regiment, but too often I'm bored by the same music that others think is a classic. I never got into last year's show, and while I've seen Faust live and listened to the San Antonio APD, I still get nothing from this show either. Yet these are often hailed as landmark shows. I'm sure many feel that DCI needs to move in this direction in order to become more entertaining. Myself, I would be more entertained if DCI were to move in the direction of SCV 1998-2003, of Blue Knights 2002-2006, and yes, certainly Cavaliers 2000-2006. In fact, part of the reason why I want Cavaliers to win is because I would rather see DCI move in that direction, and I worry whenever I think Phantom might win, and DCI might move in that direction and away from what I like.

So before you criticize the Cavaliers, for sacrificing the music, or Phantom or the Blue Devils for sacrifcing the visual, please keep in mind that every corps intends to entertain. What they can't help is that everyone is going to be entertained by different things. And when you stop and remember that every corps is indeed out there giving their best attempt to entertain you, maybe you'll recognize it, and realize that hating a show or a corps or another fan is such a petty thing to do.

[Lance]

In fact, part of the reason why I want Cavaliers to win is because I would rather see DCI move in that direction, and I worry whenever I think Phantom might win, and DCI might move in that direction and away from what I like.

I think this underlies a great deal of what is said on DCP, no matter who the corps, but most especially the Cavies, BD, and Cadets recently. And I don't like it one bit. Exactly the opposite of what I look for. I don't want it to go in any one corps' direction. I like different drill and music styles, and I hope never to see BD look and sound like the Cavies, or Phantom look and sound like BD.

[caviepit85]

Hmm, I've stayed out of the phray, but I'll offer at least this. I enjoy listening to the Cavaliers shows far more than I enjoy listening to Phantom. That's true of most every year, with 1996 being the one clear exception and with 2003 and 1989 being close as both corps were really great those years.

That's not to put Phantom down, because actually in the 2000's there's not a single corps I enjoy more than the Cavaliers - yes, even when we're talking about just music. So to me, comments like "The Cavaliers don't play music" are absurd. If they weren't playing music, or if they were sacrificing music for the visual, why am I and so many others still so clearly entertained?

The answer is that there is worth there, even if it's a subjective worth. The designers for the Cavaliers create shows, and music, that they enjoy and that they think will entertain. Judging by how I feel, and the words I hear from others who feel the same, I think they have been quite successful. Heck, my roommate's favorite show, bar none, is Four Corners, and while he's not near the drum corps superfan that I am, he'll still ask me to pop it in while we're out driving around. Frameworks is still my favorite (though i can't wait to hear the changes to Machine) and I get as emotional listening to the audio of that show as I do when listening to a classic like Madison 1995, probably the only other show that can choke me up.

So why do some continue to say that the Cavaliers don't play music? My only guess is that it's because music is undeniably subjective. It affects us all in different ways. I found Santa Clara to be absolutely stunning from 1998-2003, while I know of several posters on here who consider those shows to be a jumbled mess. Conversely, I was sorely disappointed when SCV dropped that style for their 2004 and 2005 shows, while many found them to be the most enjoyable SCV has put out in over a decade. in each year, what SCV was playing was indeed music, and in each year they were trying to entertain with their music. Each year they succeeded, but they suceeded with a different target crowd. Some years I was included in that target, others I was not.

Now, so many on these boards also love Phantom Regiment, but too often I'm bored by the same music that others think is a classic. I never got into last year's show, and while I've seen Faust live and listened to the San Antonio APD, I still get nothing from this show either. Yet these are often hailed as landmark shows. I'm sure many feel that DCI needs to move in this direction in order to become more entertaining. Myself, I would be more entertained if DCI were to move in the direction of SCV 1998-2003, of Blue Knights 2002-2006, and yes, certainly Cavaliers 2000-2006. In fact, part of the reason why I want Cavaliers to win is because I would rather see DCI move in that direction, and I worry whenever I think Phantom might win, and DCI might move in that direction and away from what I like.

So before you criticize the Cavaliers, for sacrificing the music, or Phantom or the Blue Devils for sacrifcing the visual, please keep in mind that every corps intends to entertain. What they can't help is that everyone is going to be entertained by different things. And when you stop and remember that every corps is indeed out there giving their best attempt to entertain you, maybe you'll recognize it, and realize that hating a show or a corps or another fan is such a petty thing to do.

Bravo!!

[Studio Tan]

Cavaliers 2000-2006 is kind of broad. I don't think of all seven shows as being in the same vein. Four shows are great, and 2003, 2005, and 2006 are all second-tier. You have 2004's no-nonsense great music/drill show, and then 2005's propstravaganza/forgettable music.

Edited July 31, 2006 by Studio Tan

[murphpuppy37]

Wow. This is incredibly arrogant and rude of you...sorry to hear you are a Cavalier FMM, because like it or not, people are going to associate your boorish behaviour with your corps, even if it is just subconsciously. I don't think I have ever seen a more abrasive, arrogant, and idiotic post. Glad to be able to ignore you now.

The funny thing is, a few of your posts have made me feel the same way about Phantom alums. There are people here who feel the same way about you, and the attack dog mentality of a few of the "phans" on this board. So don't think it's just the Cavaliers people.

There are plenty of annoying people representing just about every corps out there. It just seems like lately, all I'm seeing are a few "phans" who not only don't stop talking about Phantom (and they shouldn't have to), but start bashing any corps who is beating Phantom. It seems like if you don't like Regiment, then you're stupid. At least that's the attitude of a few on here.

So what's the point? I guess my point is I'm pretty tired of seemingly every topic on here being about Phantom. I almost miss the nonstop grumbling about the Cadets.

Look, Phantom has a great show this year. I have no trouble admitting that. But there are people on this board that make it really hard for me to actually root for Phantom.

I might be the only one here who feels that way. But I doubt it..

[MN DCI Fan]

I think this underlies a great deal of what is said on DCP, no matter who the corps, but most especially the Cavies, BD, and Cadets recently. And I don't like it one bit. Exactly the opposite of what I look for. I don't want it to go in any one corps' direction. I like different drill and music styles, and I hope never to see BD look and sound like the Cavies, or Phantom look and sound like BD.

I agree with you wholeheartedly here. What I fear, however (and what we've by and large seen), is that if the judging community consistently rewards any one type of show style over any other, then that's the way that a majority of corps will take their show designs. Which is unfortunate because I, like you, would much rather see a variety of approaches than a totally homogenized "drum corps." Not that it's easy to compare, say, The Godfather to The Zone: Part 2, but over the course of the last 10 years or so, it appears that judges are more willing to reward the Cavies' style of show moreso than others. Not ideal, but I'd rather watch Faust over a number of other shows, no matter where it finishes this year.

[The Tsar]

Hmm, I've stayed out of the phray, but I'll offer at least this. I enjoy listening to the Cavaliers shows far more than I enjoy listening to Phantom. That's true of most every year, with 1996 being the one clear exception and with 2003 and 1989 being close as both corps were really great those years.

That's not to put Phantom down, because actually in the 2000's there's not a single corps I enjoy more than the Cavaliers - yes, even when we're talking about just music. So to me, comments like "The Cavaliers don't play music" are absurd. If they weren't playing music, or if they were sacrificing music for the visual, why am I and so many others still so clearly entertained?

The answer is that there is worth there, even if it's a subjective worth. The designers for the Cavaliers create shows, and music, that they enjoy and that they think will entertain. Judging by how I feel, and the words I hear from others who feel the same, I think they have been quite successful. Heck, my roommate's favorite show, bar none, is Four Corners, and while he's not near the drum corps superfan that I am, he'll still ask me to pop it in while we're out driving around. Frameworks is still my favorite (though i can't wait to hear the changes to Machine) and I get as emotional listening to the audio of that show as I do when listening to a classic like Madison 1995, probably the only other show that can choke me up.

So why do some continue to say that the Cavaliers don't play music? My only guess is that it's because music is undeniably subjective. It affects us all in different ways. I found Santa Clara to be absolutely stunning from 1998-2003, while I know of several posters on here who consider those shows to be a jumbled mess. Conversely, I was sorely disappointed when SCV dropped that style for their 2004 and 2005 shows, while many found them to be the most enjoyable SCV has put out in over a decade. in each year, what SCV was playing was indeed music, and in each year they were trying to entertain with their music. Each year they succeeded, but they suceeded with a different target crowd. Some years I was included in that target, others I was not.

Now, so many on these boards also love Phantom Regiment, but too often I'm bored by the same music that others think is a classic. I never got into last year's show, and while I've seen Faust live and listened to the San Antonio APD, I still get nothing from this show either. Yet these are often hailed as landmark shows. I'm sure many feel that DCI needs to move in this direction in order to become more entertaining. Myself, I would be more entertained if DCI were to move in the direction of SCV 1998-2003, of Blue Knights 2002-2006, and yes, certainly Cavaliers 2000-2006. In fact, part of the reason why I want Cavaliers to win is because I would rather see DCI move in that direction, and I worry whenever I think Phantom might win, and DCI might move in that direction and away from what I like.

So before you criticize the Cavaliers, for sacrificing the music, or Phantom or the Blue Devils for sacrifcing the visual, please keep in mind that every corps intends to entertain. What they can't help is that everyone is going to be entertained by different things. And when you stop and remember that every corps is indeed out there giving their best attempt to entertain you, maybe you'll recognize it, and realize that hating a show or a corps or another fan is such a petty thing to do.

It's all about biases.

There is a whole generation of marchers and high school musicians that are being "weaned" on music very much like what the Cavaliers have been doing. You yourself are a product of a high school that shares many similarities with Cavaliers. Of course you're going to enjoy their shows. And no one can blame you for it. Just like no one can blame me for wanting something else musically.

The thing is this....the music that Regiment plays has stood the test of time (most of it, anyhow). Whereas most of Cavaliers' recent music has not stood the test of time, and is frankly not as musically endearing TO ME than, say, Mahler or Prokofiev.

It's all about biases, but it's also about tastes. If you're the kind of person who really really enjoys Gorecki and Berio and Stockhausen, then you're probably going to enjoy the Cavaliers more. If you like Prokofiev, Shostakovich, and Dvorak, then likely you will enjoy Regiment's productions better. It's your taste. My taste differs.

Oh well. We'll both move on. I enjoy listening to the Regiment much more than the Cavaliers. Any day of the week. You feel the opposite. It's all good.

[PhantomR]

you all take drum corps entirely to seriously.

watch and be happy it's still around.

good God.

~>conner

[The Tsar]

The funny thing is, a few of your posts have made me feel the same way about Phantom alums. There are people here who feel the same way about you, and the attack dog mentality of a few of the "phans" on this board. So don't think it's just the Cavaliers people.

I would like for you to find a post of mine where I have ever said anything as rude as the original post regarding any individual corps. And if people feel this way, please, by all means...use the Ignore feature. God knows I use mine...

There are plenty of annoying people representing just about every corps out there. It just seems like lately, all I'm seeing are a few "phans" who not only don't stop talking about Phantom (and they shouldn't have to), but start bashing any corps who is beating Phantom. It seems like if you don't like Regiment, then you're stupid. At least that's the attitude of a few on here.

I haven't seen a lot of that. I love Regiment's show this year, but as of right now it is still a third place show, and I don't have any problem with that right now.

Look, Phantom has a great show this year. I have no trouble admitting that. But there are people on this board that make it really hard for me to actually root for Phantom.

Just as certain people have made it difficult to root for Cavaliers the past two years. Which is a shame, but I suppose it is a by-product of success.

Edited July 31, 2006 by The Tsar