lbjazz Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 The top 2 corps have thier captions ordinals. Add them up. Whoever has the lowest ordinal sum wins.So if Corps A was 1st in GEVis, GEEns, 3rd in Brass, etc. It would be 1+1+3+.... Corps B was first in Perfbrass, colorguard, 2nd in VisEns, etc. it would be 1+1+2+... Sounds good to me. IMO the actual numeric value of a score is meaningless. Since the judging is at least partially subjective, and there is no absolute value for a certain kind of error, the number the judge slaps down, imo, is more of a placeholder than anything else. [Can anyone really PROVE that corps a is exactly .329 better in percussion than corps b?] The order a judge puts a corps in holds more weight. The caption system sounds good to me. Question: if this system were in place in 2000, who would have won the title? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 If after all the subcaptions are added up, the score is a tie, that means that the corps are equally entitled to the title, IMO. Basing it on subcaptions 'won' lessens the achievement of the other corps artificially. They got the score..they deserve the title...even if it is shared. That's a fine sentiment, but there was a vast amount of dissatisfaction among fans (not so much among staff or marchers, I believe) with the string of ties in '96, '99, '00. Like it or not, a lot of people watch drum corps as a quasi-sport, and they don't want a tie in finals any more than they'd want a tie in the Super Bowl. So now we have a system of tiebreakers, and they haven't been needed these past 5 years. We'll see how fans react the first time their "team" gets second based on the ordinal system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToreyP Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 What? No sudden death? :( I say send both corps running out from both ends of the field blindfolded. The corps with the most members unscathed that have reached the other side wins. To make it more interesting, make everyone bring their instruments so we can throw in a damage factor. Least damage wins. THIS WOULD BE GREAT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburstall Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 OhioStateTad already did the computing of this: Tie Breakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_S Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 (edited) If after all the subcaptions are added up, the score is a tie, that means that the corps are equally entitled to the title, IMO. Basing it on subcaptions 'won' lessens the achievement of the other corps artificially. They got the score..they deserve the title...even if it is shared. It's a competition, which means there will be winners and losers. To satisfy the competitive side of this activity then, I think it's appropriate, even necessary, to have a tie-breaking system in place. To say "give them both a trophy" flies in the face of why we even have scores at all, in my opinion. Sure, that's something of a straw man argument, but if you're going to compete under a system, make sure that that system is capable of arriving at one winner. Otherwise the system is incomplete. As for your comment of "they (both) deserve the title", that may be true. But our activity cannot help but be subjective in its judging. Think back to Atlanta, where Cavaliers beat the Blue Devils by only .025, one quarter of one tenth of a point. Couldn't we say that both corps deserved the title? What about years like 1993, or 1984, when the championship was decided by only a tenth of a point. We could easily say that both the Cadets and the Blue Devils deserved the title in 1984, yet we awarded the trophy to only one corps. Because when we added up the numbers, they were a mere tenth better. A change of a tenth here or there, by one or two judges, and we have a tie, maybe even a different winner. Yet we still award the trophy to one corps, as though the numbers were objective and indisputable and any judge on that caption that night would produce the same result. (IMO, such close margins are essentially ties anyway, and its just coincidence when the number manage to line up exactly.) Thinking of it that way, I think it would be a silly policy to award both corps the title when the numbers line up the same, and yet only one corps gets the gold even when the numbers are only .025 apart. If we're going to insist that one corps was better than the other in the latter situation, and say this corps was first while this corps was second, then we need to have a method for placing them first and second in the situation of a tie, as well. Edited August 8, 2006 by Maedhros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburstall Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 If after all the subcaptions are added up, the score is a tie, that means that the corps are equally entitled to the title, IMO. Basing it on subcaptions 'won' lessens the achievement of the other corps artificially. They got the score..they deserve the title...even if it is shared. So Mike, as a educator, why do you even give grades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbjazz Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 OhioStateTad already did the computing of this: Tie Breakers. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburstall Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 No problem. Didn't see a need to reinvent the wheel if someone already did the computing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cire Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 its a good tie breaker. i would rather lose by a tie breaker, than tie. ive tied. it sucks. lol tie breakers should go for ALL captions at finals, not just 1st/2nd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aatlb25 Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Let more people share the win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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