Chris Scott Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I will state the underlying issue with this topic. If amps cannot be played properly (without causing sound problems and injury) and still be heard at all times with the corps, then maybe.... just maybe... we are not supposed to constantly hear the pit with the rest of the corps at all times. You cannot tell me there has been many years of injured pit performers and bad sound with the pit. You cannot be right in saying we just now got it right... because that is not the case. We just changed the way its done, changed the rules.Bottom line: Does the pit need to be heard such to the point that we introduce false and unnatural ways of making it happen? Do we need an electronic mean of correcting out of tune players on the field? Do the drummers get injured with thier rapid-fire hits that we have someone make an auto hit drumstick? I look it miking the pit the same way as I do the introduction of the third valve. (Be it G or Bb). More complicated musical passages utilized the 3rd valve. More specialized techniques called for the use of mic'ed pits. I suppose that Lexan implements (mallets, etc.) could be used on all of the keyboard instruments, but that would deny the wonderful advances in musicality and texture that have been enhanced since the front ensembles have been mic'ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deftguy Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I think you might get feedback with that setup. Not to mention a highly colored sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalazz Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I think one thing we all need to do is hold the pit amplification to the same high standards as everything else in drum corps. What I mean is, if there are pops/hisses/hums and crass sounds coming out, they need to be called on it and judged accordingly. Also, there is a lot of misinformation and conspiracy theories running around on this thread as well as every time this subject is brought up. I wish more people would find out more about what they are talking about before spouting things on this forum that they really don't understand fully. (then what’s the fun in forums you say?) I see people speculating about what I do and pit staffs are doing that are simply NOT true... for example: technique thrown out the window. If you’ve ever been to a rehearsal, you’d know that is just a silly speculation. If you have any questions, email me [dt@dtay.com]. Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxDrumCorpsFanxX Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 (edited) I think one thing we all need to do is hold the pit amplification to the same high standards as everything else in drum corps. What I mean is, if there are pops/hisses/hums and crass sounds coming out, they need to be called on it and judged accordingly.Also, there is a lot of misinformation and conspiracy theories running around on this thread as well as every time this subject is brought up. I wish more people would find out more about what they are talking about before spouting things on this forum that they really don't understand fully. (then what’s the fun in forums you say?) I see people speculating about what I do and pit staffs are doing that are simply NOT true... for example: technique thrown out the window. If you’ve ever been to a rehearsal, you’d know that is just a silly speculation. If you have any questions, email me [dt@dtay.com]. Dallas but then everybody would have to have the same or nearly the same professional audio equipment. and you never know what would happen with anything electronic, sh** happens as we all like to say...one minute it could be fine and the next minute it could not be... and i think the only time that the judges should look at the amplification is if something happens to it and it screws the whole front ensemble up....but other than that i don't think it should be judged. and im not trying to start an argument here...just a decent conversation, because i like what you have said before... Edited August 30, 2006 by XxDrumCorpsFanxX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalazz Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 but then everybody would have to have the same or nearly the same professional audio equipment. and you never know what would happen with anything electronic, sh** happens as we all like to say...one minute it could be fine and the next minute it could not be... and i think the only time that the judges should look at the amplification is if something happens to it and it screws the whole front ensemble up....but other than that i don't think it should be judged. and im not trying to start an argument here...just a decent conversation, because i like what you have said before... There is no excuse in my opinion. Electrical and Audio equipment rarely "just screws up". No more than a horn may fall apart or a drumstick may break . The main reason it screws up is lack of knowledge of the operators part. Otherwise I would be in deep crap when I am doing live television shows. Now as far as the other talking points such as cost, ect... That's not my debate. It's legal, and I'm here to make it great. The "morality" of it isn't what I'm here to discuss. In a perfect world, all the corps would be given $100k in identical sound equipment, but that just isn't going to happen. I agree with you that it shouldn't be judge specifically on the sheets, but I do feel it should be influential. If something creatively doesn't work the way it's being amplified, judges should say something. Just as they would with horn or drum parts. They don't need to know the details... if it sounds bad, it sounds bad. ...or if it's cheezy and doesn't enhance the show.. you get the drift. I believe it's best for a corps to be unamplified rather than have a bunch of people who really don't understand what they are doing operating and miking. ...but that's just me... obviously. Dallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxDrumCorpsFanxX Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 I agree with you that it shouldn't be judge specifically on the sheets, but I do feel it should be influential. If something creatively doesn't work the way it's being amplified, judges should say something. Just as they would with horn or drum parts. They don't need to know the details... if it sounds bad, it sounds bad. ...or if it's cheezy and doesn't enhance the show.. you get the drift. I believe it's best for a corps to be unamplified rather than have a bunch of people who really don't understand what they are doing operating and miking. ...but that's just me... obviously. Dallas yes! now i really agree! lol so if it adds to the show then let them know, but at the same time, if theres something thats being done that takes away from the overall show product say something too. i feel the same way....if people who are doing the operation of the equipment dont' understand, then they shouldn't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMBob Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 I agree with you that it shouldn't be judge specifically on the sheets, but I do feel it should be influential. If something creatively doesn't work the way it's being amplified, judges should say something. Just as they would with horn or drum parts. They don't need to know the details... if it sounds bad, it sounds bad. ...or if it's cheezy and doesn't enhance the show.. you get the drift. I believe it's best for a corps to be unamplified rather than have a bunch of people who really don't understand what they are doing operating and miking. ...but that's just me... obviously. I agree completely. I also agree with the title of the thread. I think pits are too loud. Also, if you like louder pits, you don't have to go to amplified lines. Check out the Cavaliers' pits from the last few years before amplification, perhaps starting in 1998 or 1999. The use of superb technique creates a lot of sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 I also agree with the title of the thread. I think pits are too loud. Also, if you like louder pits, you don't have to go to amplified lines. Check out the Cavaliers' pits from the last few years before amplification, perhaps starting in 1998 or 1999. The use of superb technique creates a lot of sound. So is the argument about technique not valid? I'm not a pit guy so I'm just asking - it seems like there are two sides to this story around technique, saving the equipment and avoiding injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Worse than that - to me it's cheating. If bass #4 overplays a part it's noticed and commented on. Why should a vibe player have that same mistake covered up by a staff member? The mics on the pit are not "cheating"....it means a player can play FF to sound FF....MP to sound MP....etc...players can play with more appropriate technique to create a good sounds...it means that the mallet selections can be made better to lengthen the life of wooden bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justlittleme Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 I think one thing we all need to do is hold the pit amplification to the same high standards as everything else in drum corps. What I mean is, if there are pops/hisses/hums and crass sounds coming out, they need to be called on it and judged accordingly.Also, there is a lot of misinformation and conspiracy theories running around on this thread as well as every time this subject is brought up. I wish more people would find out more about what they are talking about before spouting things on this forum that they really don't understand fully. (then what’s the fun in forums you say?) I see people speculating about what I do and pit staffs are doing that are simply NOT true... for example: technique thrown out the window. If you’ve ever been to a rehearsal, you’d know that is just a silly speculation. If you have any questions, email me [dt@dtay.com]. Dallas I agree Dallas, as I for one have been involved in sound systems for about 25 years now, through 60,000 people to 25 people both indoors and outdoors. I dont think the recording issue should be confronted until the corps get their systems to the correct type. I mean, how can you compare the quality of a yamaha club series cabinet to a reinkus hines, or an EAW cabinet or even a QSC. How can you compare a corps sound using samsons versus a corp using earthworks. You could take the same player and using a couple different systems and make them sound different ways. And not for the better either. Is the brass judged on how good they could have sounded through a good system or are they judged on how they sound right no in the presence. IN your lower priced systems they WOULD NOT have he same quality of reproduction as the better system. Since this is mostly about pits, the same thing applies. Why buy the more expensive marimba's with the good woods and mic them wrong to begin with, but its ok because we dont want any bleed over from the horns. What happen to the quality sound this instrment produced. So when do we decided to start buying the cheaper horns and pit instruments because it doesnt matter what they sound like anyway, as long as there are is sound reinforcement run by someone that has no idea what they are really doing and it doesnt matter how well the sound system reproduces the sound put into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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