The Drum Corps Activity is Healthier Than Ever!

[MikeD]

Mike if in my business and I had 45 customers 10 years ago and now had 15 I would be out of business or working by myself again. Losing over half of anything excepts wives is a bad thing.

Well, we are talking 30 yeaqrs ago, not 10. I as just showing the ones that are still around...not others that have come along.

Plus, to further your analogy....

If I had 440 customers 35 years ago...and now I have thousands by expanding my product line....I'll take it.

[MikeD]

Dissenting opinion alert :P

The big reason I miss having more corps is not "pumping up the numbers". The biggie is so more people under and over 21 have a chance to belong to a corps if they so choose. IMO - having something so exclusive that only the best people can join royally sucks.

Well, if all the II/III corps were full you might have a point.

The 'average Joe' kids ARE marching and competing as they did in the smaller corps back in the day...only it's the competitive band scene that provides that outlet nationwide.

[Hup234]

MORE kids have MORE opportunities to have MORE fun with the marching/music activity than ever before. That's a fine tune for me.

Completely untrue.

Here's why the activity is and has been in a Death Spiral and how it began, starting in 1970:

1) That year the Combine founders forced a New Elitism on what was a vital, active and widely-popular D&BC activity which until then had been based on the equal ability of all Corps regardless of resources to build and reach the top, as the Royal-Airs had five years earlier.

2) D&BC was infiltrated by would-be "artistes" who saw an opportunity to explore their creative Broadway fantasies using amateur teenagers.

3) Seeking "musical legitimacy" and "artistic respect", the "artistes" then convinced the new D&BC governance to discard inexpensive and easy-to-learn-on bugles in place of "legitimate brass instruments" - trumpets. This was the biggest and deadliest error, as now the stream of incoming beginners, who had been the major lifeblood of drum corps since it began, was totally cut off. Corps starved for members and their numbers began to drop.

4) Simultaneously, contests began to drop in numbers as D&BC governance began to demand huge guarantees at the same time that corps were fewer and farther away.

5) With more faraway contests, the remaining units found more members unavailable to take the necessary time off for longer and longer tours, and membership continued to drop.

These are just the major causes of the 35-year decline and imminent death of D&BC, and the continuing total blindness of the leadership during the crisis they started and worse, allow to continue, and of postings like the one above, remind me of the lyrics of the old folk song:

"We're knee-deep in the Big Muddy, and the Big Fool(s) says to push on."

[Hup234]

Mike if in my business and I had 45 customers 10 years ago and now had 15 I would be out of business or working by myself again. Losing over half of anything excepts wives is a bad thing.

And the activity has lost its fanbase as well.

Almost none of the D&BC Golden Age members and fans will attend one of today's contests, and those who do will almost never return to see another one.

Anyone who needs proof of that should join one of the discussion groups for Golden Age corps or the many non-DCI alumni corps.

Those people don't bother to post here, but you'll definitely get an education there.

Every traditional institution except D&BC - and I'm talking football/baseball teams, high schools, colleges and universities, everything except D&BC cherishes and depends on its alumni to perpetuate itself and cherish and value its history.

Only D&BC has thrown away its past, thinking that will help it celebrate its present.

We'll see what that bodes for its future.

[MikeD]

And the activity has lost its fanbase as well.

Almost none of the D&BC Golden Age members and fans will attend one of today's contests, and those who do will almost never return to see another one.

Anyone who needs proof of that should join one of the discussion groups for Golden Age corps or the many non-DCI alumni corps.

Those people don't bother to post here, but you'll definitely get an education there.

Shows I attend have a nice mix of new folks and older fans. I've had nice discussions with vets from St Lucy's 66-69, Garfield 62-66, St Rita's (the two guys started in St Joe's Patrons), Crossmen early 80's... just the few years...and those are just folks who happened to sit around me. In 02 or 03 sat near a lady and her friends who had been fans of "her" Holy Name since the 40's!

Yes, join the Yahoo groups and you will be treated to a gripe session about modern drum corps. I did join and was the decided minority POV...even worse than I am here! :P

Every traditional institution except D&BC - and I'm talking football/baseball teams, high schools, colleges and universities, everything except D&BC cherishes and depends on its alumni to perpetuate itself and cherish and value its history.

Only D&BC has thrown away its past, thinking that will help it celebrate its present.

We'll see what that bodes for its future.

If alumni want to walk away, that is their business. They should be, IMO, supporting their corps as it is TODAY, not kvetching about why it is not the way it was 'yesterday', whenever that was for the individual.

IMO most of the posts by the Madison alumni project are perfect examples of how alumni should be supporting their current corps.

[ScribeToo]

"More is always better."

I guess similarly, if those 15 customers who stuck around for that long are now doing 100% or more of the business volume you generated from the previous 45 customers, then what is the problem? I guess some salesmen aren't happy unless they're working themselves into the ground.

My company has a great internal sales catch phrase - work smarter, not harder.

Stef

[Hup234]

If alumni want to walk away, that is their business.

Thank you for suggesting Reason #6 - we'll call it the "Georges Santayana Effect" - as to why D&BC continues in its ever-accelerating Death Spiral.

Imagine if troubled General Motors or Ford said that about all their many once-loyal past customers.

But instead of callously dismissing them (and unlike D&BC's complacent and oblivious "full speed ahead" current leadership, including its instructors) GM and Ford directors have been working on reconfiguring ways to recapture their past supporters. Any well-run business would - and if we hear any defense of D&BC nowadays, it's always how today's D&BC is supposedly "run like a business".

Well, the first and foremost strategy of any business has to be survival.

[Tom Brace]

Mike if in my business and I had 45 customers 10 years ago and now had 15 I would be out of business or working by myself again. Losing over half of anything excepts wives is a bad thing.

Your analogy doesn't work for me. I used to have over 80 clients...each generating about $10K-$15K of business for me annually.

Now I have 11 clients...each doing over $300K - $400K annually for me. So, in my case, less is better. Fewer people to have to schedule meetings, etc. with...more commission dollars and deeper penetration possibilities into these eleven clients.

I could have never uncovered these same opportunities with 80+ clients...we didn't have as deep a relationship because the time didn't allow it. Eleven is much easier to manage than 80 and I make more money.

I don't know if my version of your analogy is prudent to the discussion at hand...just that the analogy of less being less isn't always the case.

[t-mac]

Completely untrue.

"Here's why the activity is and has been in a Death Spiral and how it began, starting in 1970:

.....3) Seeking "musical legitimacy" and "artistic respect", the "artistes" then convinced the new D&BC governance to discard inexpensive and easy-to-learn-on bugles in place of "legitimate brass instruments" - trumpets. This was the biggest and deadliest error, as now the stream of incoming beginners, who had been the major lifeblood of drum corps since it began, was totally cut off. Corps starved for members and their numbers began to drop."

Are you seriously stating, that it's your opinion, that there would be more active D&B corps today (and subsequently, more people involved both performing and attending) if everyone was still using "non-musical" piston/rotor horns?!? I'm sorry, but I just have a difficult time accepting that as a well thought out opinion (although, you are more than welcome to have it and state it with all the passion you want). That, to me, is like stating that the downfall of "real" football began when they started using larger (or any) shoulder pads, and stopped using leather helments!

Incidently, as I am sure you are aware, "trumpets" weren't used until 2000! The third valve wasn't even added until, what 1993?

Edited October 9, 2006 by t-mac

[Tom Brace]

Dissenting opinion alert :P

The big reason I miss having more corps is not "pumping up the numbers". The biggie is so more people under and over 21 have a chance to belong to a corps if they so choose. IMO - having something so exclusive that only the best people can join royally sucks.

This comes from a guy who probably couldn't make a corps in todays world so you can figure out why I feel this way.

Dissenting opinion to your dissenting opinion alert.

I have to agree with the finances argument. We don't have more drum corps simply because it costs too much. If there are truly kids out there wanting a place to march, there are those places. Even Div. I corps advertise open spots into late June. Now...it may not be your spot...your instrument, etc., and not a top 10 Div. I corps opportunity, but there are opportunities to march for those who want to march. Hey, learning a new instrument or doing guard can be a great new learning experience.

Div. II/IIIs consistently have drill written for more members than they eventually end up with and have to "close in the holes" in July. Again, there are opportunities to march that go empty at season's end.

So the issues go back to money. Corps choose to go inactive mainly due to debt incurred. Touring costs keep going up. Members choose not to take a corps position because in their mind the dollars they need to spend in dues do not equal the kind of experience they want. It may simply be a follow the money scenario.