Piper Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Just look at the Cavs last year. They had about 40 age-outs and 90+ returning vets. I've said it before and I'll say it again : Vets rarely get cut unless they screw up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornlineDiva Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) I marched with a few vets that felt they were entitled to a spot because they had been there for X number of years, and their attitudes weighed the corps down. JUST being there for 1, 2, 3, 4 years does not necessarily make you loyal. If a corps has a policy where vets are not required to audition, then those people could just be lazy and arrogant, not loyal. You have to weed those people out. Loyalty is stepping it up in the 3 months prior to the season, and the subsequent camps. If someone really cared that much, they wouldn't get cut. This is almost never a case of some veteran, starry-eyed 17-year-old martyr who is severed unceremoniously from the corps he loves to make way for some 21-year-old trumpet major. When the caption heads consider cutting a vet, they DO consider their status. They don't cackle, pull a lever, and watch the kid fall through a trap door. Sometimes their behavior and lack of ability trumps that status. If they have nothing to offer the corps, why should the get the privilege of being there? I'll say it again.... usually, no one misses those vets that got cut. Edited December 7, 2006 by HornlineDiva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cire Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 BD doesnt cut vets.. unless they are really horrible with attitude or their actions.. but if you are good enough to make the corps.. then there is no reason why you should be cut the next year. once a devil. always a devil. something to that effect. im thinking madison would be the same way? you are also considered a vet after your first year. i do know that at SCV, you arent considered a real vet (or whatever their phrase is) until after your 3rd or 4th year.. and that you have to audition each year, until you get to that point. at least thats what ive heard from multiple sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 OK, OK, I'm getting it now. We have a gigantic failure to comprehend at work here. The key word in this whole thing is AUDITION. Most of you who are arguing that its OK to cut a vet are confusing the initial question, my responces to that and my responses to your getting it wrong with a corps member getting KICKED OUT. There's a vast difference between the two. The only straw man I'm fighting are several of you who don't know how to read and understand at the same time. I stand by my position, making a vet audition again and again is flat out wrong. If a corps member loses his spot at an audition he is getting cut based on nothing but his talent. If the corps is using that as an excuse because of other things then the corps is being dishonest. The secondary issue is A CORPS MEMBER LOSING HIS SPOT and you all acting like that's OK. I'm worried about this generation if that typifies the kind of reasoning you learned. Actually I'm more worried for my generation. Regards, John Swartz Most corps that have vets "audition" again do so in order for the staff to hear how they have progressed since August. For most corps even if there are rookies that are better than some vets they will keep the vets UNLESS there are other MAJOR issues to take into account (Money issues such as still owing money to the corps from the previous year, huge attitude issues the previous year, etc). In general they aren't so much auditioning for their spot in the corps, but giving the staff an idea of where they fit in within the section. If you have someone that was an upper split lead trumpet one year, but he hasn't played since August and can barely hit a G above the staff now you probably aren't going to keep him on upper split lead (for now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cire Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Most corps that have vets "audition" again do so in order for the staff to hear how they have progressed since August. For most corps even if there are rookies that are better than some vets they will keep the vets UNLESS there are other MAJOR issues to take into account (Money issues such as still owing money to the corps from the previous year, huge attitude issues the previous year, etc). In general they aren't so much auditioning for their spot in the corps, but giving the staff an idea of where they fit in within the section. If you have someone that was an upper split lead trumpet one year, but he hasn't played since August and can barely hit a G above the staff now you probably aren't going to keep him on upper split lead (for now) i would think most corps have an audition to see if you can make the corps, and THEN a seating audition.. to see what part you will play. i doubt they audition the entire corps in november and december and know right then what part everyone will be on.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffro21 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 So, like, you don't think that there's a fundamental difference between drum corps (a youth activity) and a regular job? Much less the military ...Sure, everyone agrees that slackers and troublemakers can and should be asked not to return. But cutting a vet just because a rookie has a better audition is pretty low, in my opinion. Of course, there's is a fundamental difference between the two. My point was more along the lines that if one of the positive effects of drum corps is the maturation of young men and women for adulthood then it makes since to operate drum corps in the same way that the "real world" operates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 i would think most corps have an audition to see if you can make the corps, and THEN a seating audition.. to see what part you will play. i doubt they audition the entire corps in november and december and know right then what part everyone will be on.. Hence the (for now) part of my post. It determines where they start so that they don't have 40 trumpets trying to play upper split lead and nobody on 3rd for half the winter. If necessary they can easily move people around to other parts. I still stand by my statement about why most corps have vets "audition" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartyount Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 My point was more along the lines that if one of the positive effects of drum corps is the maturation of young men and women for adulthood then it makes since to operate drum corps in the same way that the "real world" operates. And how does the real world operate? Are you fired from your job every year and made to re-apply and re-interview for your position? Most people have an interview and if they are considered to be acceptable for the position they remain in that position until they leave. Some people get fired for unacceptable behavior or substandard job performace, but this is equivalent to someone being cut for bad attitude or being a slacker, etc - which I have no problem with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffro21 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 And how does the real world operate?Are you fired from your job every year and made to re-apply and re-interview for your position? Most people have an interview and if they are considered to be acceptable for the position they remain in that position until they leave. Some people get fired for unacceptable behavior or substandard job performace, but this is equivalent to someone being cut for bad attitude or being a slacker, etc - which I have no problem with. Every job I've ever held [including my present job] required a yearly evaluation by my superiors. I think that pretty much equates to a re-audtion or re-evalution of one's abilites and attitude—if you're not pulling your weight, you're replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartyount Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 Every job I've ever held [including my present job] required a yearly evaluation by my superiors. I think that pretty much equates to a re-audtion or re-evalution of one's abilites and attitude—if you're not pulling your weight, you're replaced. Not the same. Did the evaluation involve actively competeing for the position against other applicants? A yearly evaluation is not a new interview because you obviously already knew enough to get the job in the first place. And you are not being evaluated against other people who are actively competing for your position. If there is such a deficiency during a review that it results in that person losing their job, it is because that person has been consistantly underperforming (equivalent to cutting vets for bad attitude or slacking), not because someone else came along that the company liked better despite your acceptable performance. If your company holds open interviews for each position in it's company every year then that is the equivalent to what drum corps are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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