Mellojaphoney Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 The discussion is not about the fact that it happens - it's about whether it's right. Actually it says "does this reallyhappen?" in the title so you are wrong there.. I believe in loyalties... But I also believe in being prepared for an audition. If you get cut it is because you didn't do your job at auditions; or you didn't do your job on the field the previous summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayM Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 "Disposable Performers":In DCI the only thing that matters is the pusuit of the "Brass Ring". All other things, including "Loyalty" for "Past Services" are secondary. Very sad. Elphaba WWW Yep. Elphaba knows all. Care to share any stories about vets you know in current corps being cut? Have any anecdotal evidence? Heck, do you have anything to back up your response? I mean, we're all used to it by now, but I feel the need to call you out every now and again. A few people were cut in the years I marched. They deserved it...simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piper Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 I've seen kids who had loads of talent, but basically weren't worth squat as a corpsmate. Contrarily, I've marched with kids who were not nearly as talented, but if I had to go to war I would want them with me every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffro21 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Why do you think drum corps should operate any differently than anything else? People are expected to have loyalty in their jobs and people are expected to have loyalty in military service but individuals are fired/replaced/outsourced and discharged all the time. A periodic re-evaluation is present in most aspects of our society. Also, the guys and girls in corps are used to the idea of re-auditioning. They do it every year for honor bands, jazz bands, university wind ensembles, scholarships, heck, even some community bands require a yearly audition. It’s something that most people are conditioned to expect. It’s the only effective way to ensure that things stay fair. Under normal circumstances, a vet doesn’t have anything to worry about as long as s/he doesn’t slack off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmencontra Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 My opinion, and from what I have experienced is that you are either part of the problem or part of solution. Much like the real world...... If you are a liability to the vision of the orginization, you should not be there. All things change, that is a given in life. If a vet or a rookie cannot get on board with the new vision of what his/her corps has, both parties win when they part ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartyount Posted December 6, 2006 Author Share Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) Actually it says "does this reallyhappen?" in the title so you are wrong there.. Yeah - I meant to say is the discussion has become about whether it's right. I believe in loyalties... But I also believe in being prepared for an audition. If you get cut it is because you didn't do your job at auditions; or you didn't do your job on the field the previous summer. Again - I'm not talking about vets who are being slackers or who have bad attitudes. I'm talking about the vets who were good enough to make the line one year, who have good attitudes and work hard - but are cut in favor of a rookie with more talent. My problem is with vets being cut based purely on raw talent. Let's say a corps has trouble filling out the line so they pick up a guy on tour to plug a hole. This guy happens to be woodwind player who's never picked up a brass instrument in his life. He marches with the corps for the last few weeks of tour and he basically was just able to learn drill and hold the horn. In the off-season he works hard and tries to learn to play, but of course with only 3 months, he's nowhere near the level of the rest of the auditionees and because of the success of the corps the past year, there are enough auditionees that the corps is confident it's going to fill the line with good talent. Our guy is a proven vet who has shown that he has a good attitude and is a hard worker and has a driven desire to return. But he's nowhere near as talented as all of the other auditionees. Should he be cut? I say no. The corps accepted his talent (or rather, lack of) when it suited the need of the corps. The corps should honor that vet's effort and commitment as long as he sustains that effort and commitment - regardless of his talent. Edited December 6, 2006 by bartyount Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raphael18 Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Actually, he is not a proven vet - he's just a hole filler. Three weeks is not enough to earn veteran status (I know, I know...even one show wearing the uniform is technically enough). It just seems fake to say that someone is good enough to run a marathon because they jumped in and ran the last quarter mile. That guy would have to have one amazing attitude, and show some incredible improvement in his ability to play between the end of the season and the first camp - at that point he might earn the right to come to another camp. It is complacity that cannot be afforded. At the Americanos we had one member that had joined the corps half way through second tour. Because she had never marched a DCM show the vets joked that she was a rookie for first tour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornlineDiva Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Most of the vets that get cut get cut because of something other than sheer technical ability, PLUS the fact that they don't have the technical skill. I promise you, save for a few exceptions, the people that get cut are usually not sorely missed. I know of a top 4 section leader that was cut from the corps a few years ago. He was cut BOTH because he was not a strong player, and because he was not well-liked among the other member leadership. I'm not sure why, but if you're not well-liked in corps, it is probably for a good reason. If he had been one of the best players at the November camp, he may not have been cut. But he wasn't, and really didn't have anything else to offer the corps. Anyone can be loyal.... after a summer with a corps, it's hard not to be loyal. Any schmuck that can eek his way through the summer can love his corps..... that doesn't mean they should all be part of a high-level corps. If you followed that logic, the quality of what is being put on the field would not be what it is now. You all love all these landmark shows, but all of those were made possible because those corps took the best of the best, and made them better. It's very romantic to talk about loyalty and dedication, but it's not practical. A corps that can afford to be choosy, should. That's part of how the activity gets better. That said, most vets will rise to the occasion. Again, the vets I know of that got cut, got cut because they slacked, because they had bad attitudes all summer, and/or were not the strongest players or marchers. You have 3 months to get better..... and if you are really that loyal, you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartyount Posted December 6, 2006 Author Share Posted December 6, 2006 Why do you think drum corps should operate any differently than anything else? People are expected to have loyalty in their jobs and people are expected to have loyalty in military service but individuals are fired/replaced/outsourced and discharged all the time. Drum corps should operate based on what's right - not based on what everyone else does. Your assertion falls under one of the logical fallacies - I'm not sure exactly which one... appeal to numbers maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartyount Posted December 6, 2006 Author Share Posted December 6, 2006 Any schmuck that can eek his way through the summer can love his corps..... that doesn't mean they should all be part of a high-level corps. If you followed that logic, the quality of what is being put on the field would not be what it is now. I care more about honor than quality of product. If the corps is willing to accept someone at a particular talent level to serve it's purpose, it should honor the effort and commitment that that person made. (Again - attitude and work ethic are a seperate issue). If the corps accepted that schmuck's talent, and that schmuck has a good attitude and work ethic, he should not be cut. You all love all these landmark shows, but all of those were made possible because those corps took the best of the best, and made them better. It's very romantic to talk about loyalty and dedication, but it's not practical. A corps that can afford to be choosy, should. That's part of how the activity gets better. The end doesn't justify the means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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