The Cavaliers

[GGarrett]

"Sing us a song, you're the Cavaliers!"

I see t-shirt potential.

we all saw it here first, Kevin...

[uncle z]

Let's face it. People don't call them the "Green Machine" just for giggles. When they bring their "A" game with them they're practically invincible.

That's why it kicks ### to be an alumnus!!!! B)

[Bob984]

I think the Cavaliers do a great job at writing a show around visual concepts......however, I don't feel they have been remarkable products from a musical arrangement/effect standpoint. Visually they are great, but I don't get the same impact from the musical product....I know there are many who disagree, and you are entitled to your opinion.....they do execute everything they do very well.......however, last year, I felt Phantom was superior musically and thus had the overall superior product, and I was not alone, and even the judging community was divided as evident by the close outcome....For me, the ultimate drum corps product is a fabulous musical book presented with a coordinated visual package, and I think Cavies shows use the reverse approach......BG

[altsrock]

i don't know about any of you, but i see some really crazy blurring of the lines between popular music and drum corps more and more.

it was weird enough for us bjork fans to hear "cvalda" and "new world" in '05, but i guess what really threw me for a loop was the comment about singing along with the cavaliers.

anybody here ever been to/heard of/seen video of billy joel in concert?

playing "piano man"?

i mean, granted, it's a kind of ridiculous to expect that to ever happen in a stadium, but if it did...i think it would be like the shot heard 'round the world for DCI.

not that it would start some kind of epic war, i'm just saying...you know, it would be the singular moment that launched an all-out revolution or the mark of a new era...

OK, MAYBE NOT. but it's nice to fantasize/dramatize.

in other news:

billy joel agrees to a guest appearence at J. Edgar Krum stadium to perform "allentown" live with the cavaliers.

the lyrics will be altered, however.

a sampling:

"well we're waiting here in allentown

because yet again our bus broke down"

and

"something happened on the way to that place

they threw a colorguard flag in our face!"

i also hear there will be an encore consisting of "we didn't start the fire"

once again, with altered lyrics. i'll let your imagination run with that one.

but really, people. "only the good die young"?

catholic girls starting much too late just doesn't scream CAVALIERS to me.

uptown girl? sure, she's been livin' in her whitebread world. now, she may be lookin' for a downtown man,

but my kinda town? i don't see the two going together.

AND SOME FOLKS like to get away, take a holiday from the neighborhood. they might hop a flight to miami beach--or to hollywood.

but are the CAVALIERS just taking a greyhound down the hudson riverline?

nay, my friend, they're more likely headed for loop south, chicago. let's face it, billy joel is the epitome of NEW YORK!

how could a group from the arch nemisis CHICAGO take on such a NY icon?

tsk tsk.

[chris ncsu]

i don't know about any of you, but i see some really crazy blurring of the lines between popular music and drum corps more and more.

it was weird enough for us bjork fans to hear "cvalda" and "new world" in '05, but i guess what really threw me for a loop was the comment about singing along with the cavaliers.

anybody here ever been to/heard of/seen video of billy joel in concert?

playing "piano man"?

i mean, granted, it's a kind of ridiculous to expect that to ever happen in a stadium, but if it did...i think it would be like the shot heard 'round the world for DCI.

not that it would start some kind of epic war, i'm just saying...you know, it would be the singular moment that launched an all-out revolution or the mark of a new era...

OK, MAYBE NOT. but it's nice to fantasize/dramatize.

in other news:

billy joel agrees to a guest appearence at J. Edgar Krum stadium to perform "allentown" live with the cavaliers.

the lyrics will be altered, however.

a sampling:

"well we're waiting here in allentown

because yet again our bus broke down"

and

"something happened on the way to that place

they threw a colorguard flag in our face!"

i also hear there will be an encore consisting of "we didn't start the fire"

once again, with altered lyrics. i'll let your imagination run with that one.

but really, people. "only the good die young"?

catholic girls starting much too late just doesn't scream CAVALIERS to me.

uptown girl? sure, she's been livin' in her whitebread world. now, she may be lookin' for a downtown man,

but my kinda town? i don't see the two going together.

AND SOME FOLKS like to get away, take a holiday from the neighborhood. they might hop a flight to miami beach--or to hollywood.

but are the CAVALIERS just taking a greyhound down the hudson riverline?

nay, my friend, they're more likely headed for loop south, chicago. let's face it, billy joel is the epitome of NEW YORK!

how could a group from the arch nemisis CHICAGO take on such a NY icon?

tsk tsk.

[BaritoneBamBam]

i love the cavaliers drill and everything maybe it's me (and this isn't meant to offend anyone)

but i think out of the usual championship corps out there, they don't seem to show off their hornline's playing abilities on the move as much. i watch frameworks and all the exposed horn parts are almost always on a hold, and the horns are very often down when moving at fast tempos.

[LockePoetic]

Yes so I hear. I, personally, don't see this. And I think if it is the case, that they do not do it significantly more than any other corps out there.

First of all, if by exposed horn parts you mean technical runs, then there probably will be a higher instance of them standing still while playing it. But that has more to do with effect than difficuty. On a ridiculous run, you don't necessarilly want the attention on the drill - you want it focused on the section playing the technique. Case in point, you never see anyone complaining that drumlines never move while playing a drum break. These are probably the most technical parts of the show for many lines, but no one calls out the Cadets drumline for holding. It's about focus, which then provides effect.

Another great example of focused effect, this time with the brass, is BD 2003. They play the awesome blue rondo lick, standing still, for a good 10-20 seconds. It's hard, it's exposed, it's motionless - but who cares. It was a great effect. Because going into it they were moving pretty good which led to a nice "Ooh" moment for standing unison lick.

Personally, I think exposure has less to do with technique and more to do with the chord structure and balance. You can hide dirt with fast fingers, but you can't hide an unbalanced chord. So exposed parts, for me, would be the long tones, those big chords that are just in your face. And the Cavaliers definitely move during these, and thier control is for the most part amazing considering what they do. That's to say they don't move during technical parts either. Watch the ballad of 2003 in the rotating circles. 2004 at the fugue section before they go into the flying triangle.

I'll give you that they do not play as many licks as a lot of corps. And they hold quite a bit, especially in 2005, but it's not much more than any other competitive corps out there. And watch what they do while they're "standing still". No other corps out there - and I will gladly talk about this with anyone who thinks isn't true - does as much while "standing still" as the Cavaliers.

Machine. Just, watch it. please. From the Robot moves, to the beginning of wired when you have high brass twisting their upper bodies back and forth while playing, and again in wired with the ridiculous spin the baritones do, and the trumpets during the shout section. I mean yeah they might not be marching drill, but they aren't standing still. And they aren't just kicking a leg out in front of them and calling it choreography.

And look holding and playing isn't bad thing. It certainly sounds better than playing and running. Look at '06 vanguard. Love the show, infinite respect for the kids marching. That drill was sick. But they had a much weaker sound than I think we were used to, and I think a lot of that had to do with how much they were running out there. And for the corps that do seem to play and move more - I'm going to go ahead and assume you're either talking about phantom, the blue devils, or the cadets, please correct me if i'm wrong - watch and count how may times in the past few years they've chilled out in groups and then casually moved to the next spot on the field. I mean it's not an indictment of them, it works and the music usually jams better that way.

In the end, I think you really can't judge a corps based on whether or not they play runs while moving in a show, because in the end the Cavaliers do move and they do play, and they do both ridiculously well. (I mean how many other corps out there do jazz run basics while playing clark studies and double tonguing exercises down the field?) And in the end it all comes back to overall demand and effect of the show - which I think is what this thread is about.

[mistofflies]

Yes so I hear. I, personally, don't see this. And I think if it is the case, that they do not do it significantly more than any other corps out there.

...snip...

In the end, I think you really can't judge a corps based on whether or not they play runs while moving in a show, because in the end the Cavaliers do move and they do play, and they do both ridiculously well. (I mean how many other corps out there do jazz run basics while playing clark studies and double tonguing exercises down the field?) And in the end it all comes back to overall demand and effect of the show - which I think is what this thread is about.

FTW

[pags]

My personal perspective is that the Cavaliers are certainly winning with a well-integrated show, but I'm not so sure I would go so far as to say they are head-and-shoulders above everyone just because they are winning. Phantom was nipping at their heels by the end of the year, and I feel that from both a design and overall execution standpoint, The Godfather was an equal show. Machine was more light-hearted than those shows, which made it stand out from them and the judges and the audience responded. That, to me, does not necessarily mean better design or integration. For instance, I feel the Blue Devils take risks with their integration and design of colorguard that supercede anything the Cavaliers have ever done with theirs, yet The Cavliers have won with what they do.

Perhaps using a different year will help explain my point of view better: lets take 1993. I love The Cadets 1993 show, but from the first time I watched I thought that Star's 1993 show was better designed and performed. However, The Cadets won.

As far as historically, I feel that there are equally-impressive (and sometimes more impressive) integrated shows as what The Cavaliers are currently doing. I would put the 1990-1993 Star of Indiana shows up against anyone for dominance in terms of show design and integration. I would also put 1994-1997, 2003-2004, and 2006 Blue Devils, and 1995-1998 Cadets up there for total musical and visual integration. I can still watch those shows and find something to be impressed and even mesmerized by

So, loooooooong story short, I disagree. The Cavaliers are doing great with what they do, but I do not feel they have set an entirely new standard that is above and beyond what everyone else is doing (past and present), but I will admit that what they are doing is beyond what most other corps are doing.

[triplefunk]

But that wasn't the question. It was do you agree or disagree that they are the best concept corps. all the shows you mentioned are great, no doubt. but did the visual, drill, music all mesh as one? or was it music, then having drill that made forms and such.

I believe the Cavaliers are far more integrated as a whole than anyone else out there. just my .02