Liam Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 There's a discussion about the history of the previous year's champion going on last here. Well, I guess I was wrong about Phantom in '97. Must have been a what-if discussion that somehow entered my memory banks as reality. Happens sometimes. Better go check to make sure I'm really married ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsFan27 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Well, it went at least until 1988, because even with that random performance order, the Cadets went on last as the defending champ. Madison drew the 11 spot, which was the last possible spot available to them. I seem to recall Phantom being given the honor in '97 after their tie with BD in '96, but I could be totally hallucinating that. I don't recall any announcement that the tradition was being eliminated. Maybe the corps have just passed on the honor recently. Actually, I believe that the Cadets actually drew the #12 spot. A FMM of Madison said that Hopkins looked rather pleased with drawing #12 until Scott Stewart pulled #11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Actually, I believe that the Cadets actually drew the #12 spot. A FMM of Madison said that Hopkins looked rather pleased with drawing #12 until Scott Stewart pulled #11. Well okay then --- oh fer two !!!!!! :) I really should know better than to try and conjure up memories from the 80's and 90's. Not a good time for me brain-cell-wise, if you get my drift.... :mmm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommytimp Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Debate over who was the best corps that night aside, I've always wondered why they showed that on the broadcast. Here Don's talking about how the new format makes it more fair, and they show that. also for facts sake I believe it was Scott Stewart, not Dan. He sure looks weirded out himself after that. Anyway...whatever. Thank you, I believe you are correct. It's been a while since i watched it. All us DMs, Dan Feeney included, were front and center that night (except Doug Rutherford of Garfield, because when I ran into him at the concession stand after their performance, he was surprised we had to get back in uniform, saying "We gotta go back and practice"), but the top 5 directors did the picking. Some random guy picked for the bottom 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourouttheforty Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 That's OK because it's not the actual score that matters so much, but point-spread that shows how much one corps is better than another. Yeah but you have the Box system constraining the judges too, so that scores one night mean the same thing as scores on another night. I mean, it makes sense for judges to just give the first corps on a 10.0 and then score everyone relative to them, but I don't even know what box a 10.0 is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumCorpsFan27 Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 The fact of the matter is the judges are going to know where corps lie in a general sense anyway. They just would have to be somewhat moderate at the begining of the show. My guess is you would see less 99s and 98s at Finals, but who am I to say that. Anyway, this is no different of a problem than figure skating judges have. I'm not sure what their system is but it isn't reverse order of finish from the earlier rounds. There is some kind of pooling or grouping that goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I thought the 88 format was great. There has always been a problem with slotting. We have been in a system for a long time now that only 1 or two (and maybe at the most 3) corps come in with a shot at the title. The whole "on any given night" statement is a joke. Last year, without elaborating, greatly amplified that fact. If we want a system where everyone is given an equal shot, and one that discourages any slotting, random order is the way to go. When I marched, and we drew lots for prelim order, prelims were by far the most competitive shows, and the judging seemed far more accurate than finals shows. If you did a hot job in your caption, you were far more likely to get a "number" or proper placement/fully rewarded in prelims then in finals, at any show. Yes, it may be a bit weak if you had the eventual 12th place corps being the last corps on in finals and the winner being on 2nd. But, in the long run, it would help corps step to the plate a bit more, and the seperation between corps would become more blurred. Also, a corps would no longer be guaranteed the prime time late spot just because you are at or near the top....ie you may have to show up earlier. For the people who really have a problem with it, even a top 6 bottom 6 split (for finals only, again with no prelim scores announced (except for 13th and below)...the only thing anyone would know is that they finished in semis somewhere in the top 6 or lower 6. It would also guarantee a more even audience. When I went to prelims last year, I have noticed we now have a "country club" crowd, who only comes late at quarterfinals and semis. Does a Pacific Crest or Esperanza deserve to perform in front of a small crowd at prelims while the "big boys" get a full crowd?? I don't think so. When we had random prelims by draw, the crowd was strong the entire show. This system merits another shot. GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raphael18 Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Maybe I'm thinking of something else, but wasn't 88 also the year that the judges used a different GE heavy judging sheet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 When was the last time you actually went to a DCI show? Or are you just talking out of your ###? Just as I thought, no response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraRich77 Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 88 was fun. As a marching member, at his first DCI, I actually thought the experiment was kinda cool. It sure brought a level of excitement that year that you don't experience everyday. As for us (SCV) we'd started that year REALLY slow and clumsy, and it took a lot of blood, sweat and tears over the summer to rise to the level we achieved. It's funny, we more or less thought of beating the Blue Devils as our goal (as they stomped on us left and right without even trying in the early season) and I guess it was assumed: beat BD = win DCI. Well, finals night we did finally manage to beat BD, and I remember when they were announced in 3rd we all joined hands across the retreat block, then "In 2nd place, with a score of 96.9....the Santa Clara Vanguard" and the place goes NUTS, and we were, like "Um......who's left??" For a corps that just missed the title by two tenths of a point, you wouldn't know it to look at us as there wasn't a frown or a gloomy face to be found, I guess it was all a bit overwhelming being held in the dark with scores and placement all week, not knowing a darn thing until finals retreat..........whatever else that system was, it sure generated a hell of a lot of excitement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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