Who's left in G?

[strutta]

not for nothin' but if I want to hear a great 'concert instrument' sound, I'm NOT seeking it from a drum corps. I'll listen to a REAL orchestra, jazz band, etc.

Though I know the 'illuminati' that hijacked drum coprs years ago will see to the demise of the G bugle, it is my humble opinion that,

The 'G' bugle is what made/makes drum corps DIFFERENT and GREAT!

Everything else is well performed brass field shows IMHO (or 'bugle band' as a friend calls it), but I don't get the goosebumps that the 'G' shows brought (and still bring occasionally).

Just my 2 (pre-1990's) pennies worth...

Edited January 5, 2007 by strutta

[Mark Time]

I may be wrong, but I think that Alliance is Bb/F as well. I think they have always been.

Time for a note to Jeff Pastor! :P

Pat

That is correct.

[Mark Time]

Here's a list of what we know so far...

DCA Corps using G brass

Empire Statesmen

Brigadiers

Renegades

Corpsvets

Kilties

Skyliners

White Sabers

Sunrisers

Music City Legend

Heat Wave

Derby City Knights

Frontier

Gulf Coast Sound

Shenandoah Sound

So Cal Dream

Jackson Generals

River City Regiment (BBb contras)

World Gone Mad

Grenadiers

DCA Corps using Bb/F brass

Caballeros

Bushwackers

Minnesota Brass

Buccaneers

Hurricanes

Alliance

Austin Stars

Govenaires

Chops Inc.

Crusaders

When I saw my first drum corps show back in the early 80's all I know is I was blown away and I didn't care whether the horns were in the key of G, Bb, X, Y or Z. I just knew it was awesome and I wanted to do it.

Edit: I fixed the Kilties contra debacle

Edited January 9, 2007 by Mark Time

[jondgrant]

Derby City Knights ==> G Bugles!

[Galen]

Derby City Knights ==> G Bugles!

Sweet! b**bs

[Dr Beat]

G versus Bb has nothing to do with the quality of the instrument.

Right. Kanstule horns, say, G sops and Bb trumpets are made side-by-side, from the same materials, tubing, similar (same?) valve sets, and by the same hands. They occupy the same work table at Kanstul. Difference? One is in the key of G and the other in Bb (length), and leadpipe, bore . Subtle differences SHOULD be there as "bugles" are supposed to be conical (plumbing gradually get wider) where "trumpets" are cylidrical horns (stay pretty much the same until the bell flare) which accounts for the difference in the color of the sound. Like a concert euphonium vs. concert baritone and trombone. One is not bette than the other. They just sound a little different because of key and degree (if any these days) of taper in the pumbing. Same quality. No difference in ability to "play in tune." All up to the individual.

Degrees of cylindrical to conical:

Trumpet = brighter

Bugle = less bright

Cornet = more warm and mellow

Fluegel = even more mellow and dark

Exagerated difference to illustrate is G sop vs. G mello... same length of horn, but the mello is ultra conical - more than even a fluegel.

I leave this site for months on end, and return to find the same old debates by people that don't undertstand a lick of musical instrument physics, and toss out completely subjective crap as if it was scientific fact.

BTW: I can make a trumpet sound like a bugle, or visa-versa, just by using particular mouthpieces to simulate the respective true colors.

1st Brigade Band, a large group that plays 1860's period horns (with modern mouthpieces) -- amazingly -- plays in tune. Imagine that. 40 horns or so playing IN TUNE with 150-year-old horns. Good players can overcome most any issues with a horn, and today's G horns have nothing to overcome.

I will now return to my spiderhole.

Edited January 5, 2007 by Dr Beat

[Clavejo]

Uh huh...and Renegades hornline was also in 6th place with 4 b-flat hornlines above them. We all know that G bugles sound louder than B Flats. B flats are superior horns regarding construction, tuning, tonality, and balance. G horns are...louder....and they have the 'sizzle' factor. That's about it.

B Flat low brass is WAY darker than G. B flat trumpets are less tinny (and darker also) than sopranos. The only instrument I personally like better are G Mellophones as opposed to F mellos.

DCA isn't about louder and bigger anymore. DCA is about quality and difficulty, blend, balance, and superior tonality...all of which are easier to achieve with a B Flat hornline.

Sometimes, we have to embrace change, and also change our attitudes about what is good and what isn't as good. For me, I used to LOVE the sound of a g hornline blowing the walls down...nowadays, I love a good b flat hornline any day over a G line. I've gotten older, become more educated, and have embraced quality. This is MY opinion. It may be wrong, I realize that.

Renegades - you know I love you guys. I always have. I love that your whole concept of your hornline is "Loud is Good"....but as it turns out as of late in DCA...being just loud alone ISN'T good anymore. Of course, you don't sound like 50 Mack trucks hauling half dead bovines across a gravel pit, but your situation in the ranks of the DCA hornlines can improve greatly if you make the switch. I mean, with all of the talent you have in your hornline (BD/SCV alums aplenty), you could possibly be just as loud with B Flats and sound even better! I know you won't, because it goes against your philosophies, and that's all fine and good. If you've been pleased with your brass scores and placements, then go right ahead doing what you're doing. There's a TON of DCA fans that love you for it (including me). But if you're not pleased, and even feel that you might be getting 'hosed', then maybe taking the next step is what you might consider. Personally, considering all the hardships your corps went through last season, it's amazing that you did as well as you did. It's a testament to all of your hard work, hunger, and dedication to kicking ###. Bravo!

PLEASE don't take any of this the wrong way - I understand that it's teetering on negativity, but that is not my intention at all. I'd simply like to even the playing field more. Also realize, that I'm speaking for myself here, and not the corps I'm affiliated with. :)

We've been having this discussion for years, and I don't believe it will ever end.

Some corps use G horns, and they love it. Some corps use B Flats and they love it.

If you wanna change, then change. If not, then don't. It's as simple as that.

Fair enough, but like to point out that we did take 2nd in 05' Prelims and IMO should have won at Finals.

[dumbari78]

When I saw my first drum corps show back in the early 80's all I know is I was blown away and I didn't care whether the horns were in the key of G, Bb, X, Y or Z. I just knew it was awesome and I wanted to do it.

That is the best thing I've read, and that's what it's all about man

[JKatzmellophone]

Right. Kanstule horns, say, G sops and Bb trumpets are made side-by-side, from the same materials, tubing, similar (same?) valve sets, and by the same hands. They occupy the same work table at Kanstul. Difference? One is in the key of G and the other in Bb (length), and leadpipe, bore . Subtle differences SHOULD be there as "bugles" are supposed to be conical (plumbing gradually get wider) where "trumpets" are cylidrical horns (stay pretty much the same until the bell flare) which accounts for the difference in the color of the sound. Like a concert euphonium vs. concert baritone and trombone. One is not bette than the other. They just sound a little different because of key and degree (if any these days) of taper in the pumbing. Same quality. No difference in ability to "play in tune." All up to the individual.

Degrees of cylindrical to conical:

Trumpet = brighter

Bugle = less bright

Cornet = more warm and mellow

Fluegel = even more mellow and dark

Exagerated difference to illustrate is G sop vs. G mello... same length of horn, but the mello is ultra conical - more than even a fluegel.

I leave this site for months on end, and return to find the same old debates by people that don't undertstand a lick of musical instrument physics, and toss out completely subjective crap as if it was scientific fact.

BTW: I can make a trumpet sound like a bugle, or visa-versa, just by using particular mouthpieces to simulate the respective true colors.

1st Brigade Band, a large group that plays 1860's period horns (with modern mouthpieces) -- amazingly -- plays in tune. Imagine that. 40 horns or so playing IN TUNE with 150-year-old horns. Good players can overcome most any issues with a horn, and today's G horns have nothing to overcome.

I will now return to my spiderhole.

Bravo!!!!!!!

Has this subject been beaten to death yet or what? Its now 4 years since the 1st corps purchased mixed key instruments. So what. When you all realize that there is a person behind the horn and they makes the magic not the piece of brass in his/her hands the quicker you can get over it and enjoy Drum Corps again. Last I remember, people marched on the field making the music. The horn no matter the key is just a piece of brass. Now how amazing is it that people like us can make a piece of brass sound so good? People were given credit for their achievements. Not the horns they played at the time.

Edited January 5, 2007 by JKatzmellophone

[G_Bass]

Gulf Coast Sound is also G

Here, here!

As a guy in his youth marching with a G contra, and playing in a university band on a BBb tuba, I love the sound Contras make. Its lower, darker, and just freakin sweet!

I just got done reading all of the "proposals" going to DCI, and I am more and more loving that I'm with a corps that will keep the tradition of G bulges, no electronics, and Corps spirit. So help me if G bugles disappear, I will produce them myself!

Alright, enough beating the dead horse.