Tank Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 No, not really. He knows just fine what the audience is. Sadly (for those of us NOT on Mike D's side of the fence), he's correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 (edited) Just for the sake of doing some math, Correps.com lists 1,237 junior corps (since about 1925) If we assume that each corps averaged 55 members (arbitrary, I know that historically 128 members was only the top 20 or so corps since the mid 1960s) , then there are 68,035 corps alumni out there. Now, also figure that say, 25% have passed away (also an arbitrary guess) - that leaves 51,026 alumni. Not the 2 million kids in bands, but still a core group of fans. Now, I think the 2M number is foolish, because I teach a 200-piece band, and MAYBE 25% (and I think it's under 20%) are committed enough to be interested in something like drum corps. I would think the number of drum corps-interested kids in the majority of bands is closer to that, so let's just take a big, fat guess and say 40% of these 2M kids are legitimate targets for a drum corps audience. That's 800K. 800K kids v. 50-200K alums. THERE'S the real number to look at. Question 1: On the surface, which number would you focus on: 800K or 50-200K? Question 2: Can the portion of the 800K that gets grabbed financially make up for any lost portion of the 50-200K? Edited January 9, 2007 by Tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madscout96 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Now, I think the 2M number is foolish, because I teach a 200-piece band, and MAYBE 25% (and I think it's under 20%) are committed enough to be interested in something like drum corps. I would think the number of drum corps-interested kids in the majority of bands is closer to that, so let's just take a big, fat guess and say 40% of these 2M kids are legitimate targets for a drum corps audience. That's 800K.800K kids v. 50-200K alums. THERE'S the real number to look at. Question 1: On the surface, which number would you focus on: 800K or 50-200K? Question 2: Can the portion of the 800K that gets grabbed financially make up for any lost portion of the 50-200K? Hmmm... Which group has more money to spend without needing the approval of their parents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) Hmmm...Which group has more money to spend without needing the approval of their parents? You're right. Which means, for the time being, it's a matter of ration. If you lose an alumnus who spends $1000 a year on drum corps tickets, trips, swag, etc., can you attract 10 kids who will spend $100 a piece? And if they ARE successful at attracting those 10 kids, they have a chance of turning those kids into alumni and/or adult fans who might be willing to spend that $1000. Edited January 10, 2007 by Tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hmmm...Which group has more money to spend without needing the approval of their parents? How many of those band kids go to shows by the busloads with pockets full of money from their parents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slow Adam Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) Sadly (for those of us NOT on Mike D's side of the fence), he's correct. Granted he may know "who" his audience is, but does he really know "what" the "who" wants, or is he just substituting his own wants for theirs? I stand firm by my opinion that the cheese barometer in kids today is, if anything, more sensitive than past generations. What is cheese to us is uber-cheese to them. Sure his audience may be 17 year olds, but do they really want voices and electronic wave sounds and flutes in drum corps, or is he just assuming that for them because they do high school marching band, and therefore they must love that crap? Edited January 10, 2007 by Slow Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Read what Hopkins says about whom to go for. It is clear that he wants to go for the current band kids without regard to the legacy fan. If they come, great. If not, he doesn't care. The things you mention are bones from the periphery. I am talking about current show design. I believe that it can be done. George says let's not think about them, but only the kids.George, what happens 10 years from now? Screw those kids and hope for the next generation of kids? Dangerous thinking if you ask me. exactly. it's as if his dream includes constant turnover. the best way to build is to get a loyal base, retain them, AND keep adding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 there are more than 750 pro baseball players, if you count minor leagues. But even those kids who play baseball growing up and don't go pro, many of them might play rec league softball, and certain SUPPORT pro baseball by watching it on TV and buying tickets to games. I think Ideally we want kids who are in band to be interested in drum corps, have the desire to march, and then be a supporting fan later on whether they march or not. agreed, and i used the pros because dci markets itself as the major league of the marching arts. i know many people that never marched, got hooked, and kept following...my wife for example. she never got to do corps until we formed an alumni corps. That's a good question I'd like to ask him. So we have to change what we are every 10 years or so, just to stay "cool"? We have to go after a new audience and blow off the old one? That's a tall order. it is indeed, and quite honestly, it's unrealisitc. drum corps didnt make major changes for decades, and while it did have a drop off, it started coming back. all these new rules didnt do that...it started before amps etc got passed. then when you have finals in 2 traditional hotspots, plus going to a place it hasnt been in 28 years, you're going to see attendance rise, at least at finals. Pro baseball (to use as an example again) generally doesn't do that. They keep the integrity of the game the same, and keep some uniforms from changing (see Tigers, Yankees, Cardinals, etc.) to remind older fans that it's still the same great game that they loved when they were younger. These older fans then get their kids interested by taking them to games and watching on TV. MLB goes after this newer audience by making TV broadcasts more interesting for them, putting ferris wheels and merry-go-rounds at the newer stadiums, and fluffy stuff like that, but the game remains unchanged! There was a huge story last week about how some of the balls used in 1998 may have been made slightly differently to allow for more home runs, and there was a huge stink over that and steroids. Baseball "legacy" fans want their game messed with alot less than drum corps is being messed with! But MLB probably knows that if the "legacy" fans aren't interested, they won't get their kids interested, and all the marketing in the world won't bring in 15,000 people per game. see above. for every tweak to brass, for every additional percussion instrument added, to every new design element added to the visual side, nothing was drastically different, and was an evolution on EXISTING pieces of the puzzle. and, when you look at baseball, even with rising costs, attendance isnt shrinking, it's growing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) is drum corps about those who marched or those who currently march? or what mix? your logic on this one is little off. if MTV followed your logic, it would still be playing Michael Jackson, DEVO and the B-52s. i guess it's surprising that folks perceive a problem in marking and focusing on the people most attracted to and able to buy what you sell -- more young people are going to shows, more students are auditioning, more corporate partners are signing on w/ the corps and dci, more people are attending shows, more people are watching on tV (1M+ for the main and rebroadcasts on ESPN2).... DCI's W990 shows a pretty steady growth of gross revenue and money send to corps..... would it be nice to have more corps? maybe.. maybe not. it would be nice to have more BETTER corps, but i suspect that no one really wants more corps any cost, given the failure rate of corps. all in all, to me, from the outside.....things look pretty good for DCI. mtv does show those...they have channels specifically devoted to showing videos that most cable companies get Edited January 10, 2007 by jeffsnewjetta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Time to blow up another fallacy Look at Poll Star for last year (its an industry booking site for rock band and acts), I think in the non-membership area you’ll be able to find the top concert grosses for last years…its geezer bands, rolling stones are on the top of the list…then a large chuck of the top 10 is more geezers bands – see, they kids don’t have the money to spend or they are not very loyal Look at actual CD sales then, you’ll notice the same trend…kids love their free down loads, file swapping and disposal pop songs – it’s not as top heavy with geezer acts but they are very well represented, more so then you’d expect unless you did the research Why I recall reading a music industry analysis that was commissioned and put together by a top consultant firm a few years ago when I was still in the music biz, pretty much predicted that trend. So, if you follow the money, you have to chase who is spending that money and it’s not the kids in pop/rock, it’s the legacy fans Odd you bring up the B-52’s, fun group, nice guys, put on a good show, seen them too many times to recall but their current business model is playing corporate parties or small clubs but with a high ticket price (last trip through town it was a face of $50) – that brings them in more profit, cuts over head is more to their personal liking (they also hate smoke in clubs BTW) and then sure, they did that stint in Lake Tahoe for a bit at a casino to haul in more bucks…so they are still making tons of bucks w/out the hassle and on their terms. Bully for them in being able to capture their market because the know their market...no such game as waiting for all these new fans that still have yet to show, will they ever show? Nope, it’s not what it always seems it should be unless you researched but then it wouldn’t seem that way at all then here's a nother legacy fan stat ignored..... how many of us had albums...then got the tapes....then the cds... as well as got the vhs tapes, then got the dvds when they came out.... so we replaced our collections 2/3 times over to keep up with the trends....and it isnt cheap. if you got the legacy collection when it came out, you dropped a grand. add in if you got the dci cd collection that came out in 97. then the videos/tapes/albums. real die hards do that....and many did. those are the fans to really go after keeping in addition to adding the new blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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