StickTrick Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Well, Troopers bought a new G line in 2004, I think. Definitely the biggest reason that corps won't go this route still is that you can't sell 64-72 horns very easily. It's really easy to take a brass line that is a year old and sell an entire contra section to a band program for $15,000 or so. Pretty much your only buyers of G bugles are senior corps now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravedodger Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 simply put is that Bb horns are way easier to tune than G bugles. so more time can be spent making the line clean in articulation, balance, etc as opposed to spending a lot of time just trying to get them play in tune Bb's are not easier to tune. Young players are used to playing on Bb's, so it's easier to start a season without wasting time adjusting to a new key. BTW, it can be exhausting to play a bad horn in tune. I bought a King Cleveland cornet over a year ago and the concert C is super flat, which s a very bad thing when playing in a wind ensemble. I've also sub'ed with my sop in wind ensemble, orchestra and stageband. No one notices except the the rest of the trumpet line (who typically point and giggle like little girls). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penn State Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I wouldn't make this type of blanket statement. I mean, if a musician is truly trained, and I mean trained well, then any instrument would make tuning easy. I think that the statement that is made too often about Bb/F being easier to tune than G bugles is a cop out. There is such a thing as a bad horn though. I will only comment on mellos. When I still owned my Bach 1105sII mellophone (produced by Yamaha). A friend who is a Crossmen mello age out and current professional trumpet player was unable to hit the top line F. She is a very talented musician. As many of you know, the very narrow slotting of the top line F partial was very narrow, a flaw of the horn. The Bach mercedes mello (original F.E. Olds model) is an overall superior horn. The new Yamaha 204 is the best mello to ever be produced. I've played Dynasty G and F and Kanstul F mellos, none of them come anywhere close to 204. G 'bugles' are very special, in fact I'm working towards becoming a professional contra player (USMC d&bc). G bugles are just not manufactured to the same standards as Bb/F horns. It's not that the manufacturers don't care theres just a lot more money to be made in the Bb/F market of marching instruments. Big manufacturers like Yamaha and King put more money developing their marching brass line then do the bugle makers such as DEG or Kanstul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeme70 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 My understanding is that all the manufacturers that used to make bugles still will - it doesn't cost them much if anything to keep the tooling for the G horns around, so if you want to pay for a brand new horn, they'll sell you one - it might be a week or more turn around time though. I also seem to recall that the USMC D&BC just purchased an entire line of 2 VALVE G Bugles from Kanstul...which, since Kanstul as a company started after 3 Valve horns were standard, they did have to create some custom dies - unless Ziggy had been toting around a set just waiting for such a situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 My understanding is that all the manufacturers that used to make bugles still will - it doesn't cost them much if anything to keep the tooling for the G horns around, so if you want to pay for a brand new horn, they'll sell you one - it might be a week or more turn around time though.I also seem to recall that the USMC D&BC just purchased an entire line of 2 VALVE G Bugles from Kanstul...which, since Kanstul as a company started after 3 Valve horns were standard, they did have to create some custom dies - unless Ziggy had been toting around a set just waiting for such a situation. Not entirely true...Zig DID make 2 valve G horns even after 1990 when 3 valves were legalized....there was still a market for new 2 valvers....ask Velvet Knights. I wonder, however, if KING still has THEIR 2 valve tooling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKSopJP Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 i shouldve clarified and said in a drum corps setting that a Bb horn is much easier to tune than a G bugle. not all drum corps musicians are the same calibur as a well trained college or better musician so you have to take that into consideration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchromik Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 If Star was still around, they would be using Bb instruments. They used Bb instruments in Blast. Star did hang on to the two valve G horns after everyone started switching to three valves, but yes they would have moved quickly to Bb. During the rules congress sessions prior to the the three valve legalization, they were actually pushing for any key. Of course there was little traction then. During the the first season of Brass Theater they used the G bugles back to back with convention concert instrumentation. It was interesting. Blast! has always been Bb/F. The Star Alumni D&B Corps and Star United Minicorps are on Bb/F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontwan2know Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Yes, you can still get them, but be prepared to pay up front and wait a serious length of time for them to arrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) simply put is that Bb horns are way easier to tune than G bugles. so more time can be spent making the line clean in articulation, balance, etc as opposed to spending a lot of time just trying to get them play in tune Could you explain this one? Does the horn line have to be tuned multiple times a day? All my DC time has been in G and non-DC time has been in Bb and never noticed a difference in time needed for the initial tuning. During the day you just have to pay attention to your horn and the horns around you which works the same way in Bb and G. Edit: Saw your second post and yes it's a different sound to get used to but still the same idea. As for well trained musicians very few of my past and present fellow horn players are trained musicians. I work with Unix computers which shows what kind of musican training I have. :P Edited February 22, 2007 by JimF-3rdBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddschultz Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Again...I will say it's not always the equipment that causes bad intonation. I think too often we use equipment as our excuses as to why we play out of tune, when in reality playing out of tune is not a matter of equipment, in my opinion. I do agree with those that say that certain horns are built different than others, and that many notes are out of tune because of the make up of the horn, but if a musician is trained well, they can compensate. It may be frustrating sometimes, but then again, it's a training thing I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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