Is Drum Corps "School?"

[jwillis35]

I am starting this to stop the OT discussion on another thread. I have heard terms such as "students," "faculty," and even "tuition" used in association with drum corps. I say that it is not. In fact, I have gone as far as to accuse drum corps stating this of being egotistical and pretentious. Some say it is merely semantics. I say it is more and it is inappropriate. Drum corps are not formal educational institutions, members are not student, instructors are not professors and directors are not deans. What do you think?

I understand what you mean, but...

Here is what we know: drum and bugle corps DO have instructors. The instructor is a teacher of various methods, ideas, and even philosophies. They are teaching those who will march the show, who are members, but they are learning from the instructors which also makes them students. They are students of the activity.

One does not have to be in school to be a student. One does not have to be a Dean, Professor, or some other kind of acredited educator to be considered a teacher. Parents are teachers, brothers and sisters can be teachers. To think that those who march drum corps are not students of the activity is somewhat naive, and it disregards the notion that some of the best learning and teaching can come from outside the educational system.

So, in my opinion, we have teachers (instructors), and marchers (learners/students). You could say the curriculum is not as comprehensive, which is true, because it is a specialized education. I am not sure I would use the term faculty, but one could make the case. I am not sure I would use the term tuition as well, but again one can make the argument.

[DrumCorpsFan27]

saw this link in another thread... look at the 2nd line... 500______

http://carolinacrown.org/artman/publish/article_354.shtml

Like I said, self-proclaimed.

"I am God."

[DrumCorpsFan27]

I understand what you mean, but...

Here is what we know: drum and bugle corps DO have instructors. The instructor is a teacher of various methods, ideas, and even philosophies. They are teaching those who will march the show, who are members, but they are learning from the instructors which also makes them students. They are students of the activity.

One does not have to be in school to be a student. One does not have to be a Dean, Professor, or some other kind of acredited educator to be considered a teacher. Parents are teachers, brothers and sisters can be teachers. To think that those who march drum corps are not students of the activity is somewhat naive, and it disregards the notion that some of the best learning and teaching can come from outside the educational system.

So, in my opinion, we have teachers (instructors), and marchers (learners/students). You could say the curriculum is not as comprehensive, which is true, because it is a specialized education. I am not sure I would use the term faculty, but one could make the case. I am not sure I would use the term tuition as well, but again one can make the argument.

But you are using these terms in a much different sense. I understand the "student of life" opinion, but your mother and father did not call themselves teachers nor you students. Scout leaders teach all of the things you mention in your post and no one formaly calls them teachers or the kids students. Why? It is not appropriate. Somewhere along the line, certain corps started to cop an attitude and self-proclaim themselves as purveyors of scholastic musical education. Just because they put "education" in their mission statement doesn't make them any more a school than boyscouts or girlscouts.

[DrumCorpsFan27]

QUOTE(SCVsopAaron @ Feb 28 2007, 04:09 PM)

You live in denial.

Denial of what?I think, perhaps, that you are living in denial. Denial that drum corps isn't quite university setting some of them want us to believe they are. You are a marching member, a performer. You are learning lessons that you will use the rest of your life. That's all true. Doesn't make it school, and they shouldn't present it as such, IMO

[DrumCorpsFan27]

QUOTE(danielray @ Feb 28 2007, 05:16 PM)

Dunno...

I had a stack of credits from Diablo Valley College that I earned through Blue Devils that said something like 'Ensemble - Drum & Bugle Corps' on the transcripts. Juilliard accepted them, every single credit, without so much as a question or smirk.

I studied composition. I had all kinds of cool conversations with professors about some unique challenges that someone would face in writing for a group of performers that were not just sitting there in some chair. They asked ME questions about this... they thought it was an interesting challenge.

Granted, that would be the younger set of professors... not the dinos that wouldn't allow us to even write our history papers on computers (ever been to a swap meet at the Meadowlands looking for an electric typewriter?) because they thought it would make us 'uncommital' or having to write all scores by hand in ink so that we 'finish in our head' and the act of putting it on paper is only a formality.

Anyway, the point is that those that are so adamently against it are those that have little exposure to the activity or those that haven't seen much in 30ish years. Those that have... while it may not be their thing... appreciate the level of committment... and generally complain only about the lack of subtlety and sight reading skills (independant vs. directed interpretation) of many players that have spent a lot of time in corps.

Would you have received those credits had you only had been marching with Blue Devils C or B?

Why not? It's still drum corps with faculty and students.

Oh wait, an accredited educational institution had to approve it, formalizing your credits. Does every Blue Devil member get those credits? No? Ah, only students of the college get the credits. So, who is the educational institution, the Blue Devils, or Diablo Valley?

[Vagabond Skyliner]

But you are using these terms in a much different sense. I understand the "student of life" opinion, but your mother and father did not call themselves teachers nor you students. Scout leaders teach all of the things you mention in your post and no one formaly calls them teachers or the kids students. Why? It is not appropriate. Somewhere along the line, certain corps started to cop an attitude and self-proclaim themselves as purveyors of scholastic musical education. Just because they put "education" in their mission statement doesn't make them any more a school than boyscouts or girlscouts.

AGREE!!!

When I walked into Harold Daily Post 1333 down on Main St. in Asbury Park, N.J. That Fall day in 1961, to join the Asbury Park "Hurricanes" Jr. Drum and Bugle Corps. "Red" Barnum of the Hawthorn Caballeros. (Yes. " THE " multi-National Champions of Hawthorne, N.J) was the Horn Instructor. He looked at me, my mouth, and said Your a "Baritone". "Go sit over there". A horn was brought to me. HE Taught me how to play. Then I learned the Corps music. Jesto Alamon(sp) also of Hawthorne taught Marching and Drill. (to this day. Even when I was in St. Lucy's Cadets and the New york Skyliners I still come to a halt Cab's style) Can not remember Drum Instructor.

The in 1975 "Jimmy Hurley" (Player,Instructor,Judge) called one day in 1974. He was a friend of mine from the Hurricanes. He was teaching the reorganized (Blessed Sacrament) "Golden Knights" Sr. Drum Line. He needed Bass Drummers. I went to his home two or three times a week for a few months to teach me. Then he brought me to north Jersey to join the Corps.

Never once did I ever think of things as "School" or Teacher - Student. All those Instructors were in or from National Contenders, and Lucy's, Golden Knights, Skyliners were all National Contenders.

Fancy Titles for who was who were not needed.

The final outcome told us whether they, or I did our part in things.

[Nex]

I think the terminology is actually used to be more specific and thus is a good thing. It is not used to be pretentious, but rather to differentiate between the staff (who run the corps) and the faculty (who instruct the members). It's not trying to make the activity something holier-than-thou, but rather a way of differentiating between two seperate facets of the corps' management.

[SCVsopAaron]

Like I said, self-proclaimed.

"I am God."

HAHA. Lame. <**>

[madscout96]

I think the terminology is actually used to be more specific and thus is a good thing. It is not used to be pretentious, but rather to differentiate between the staff (who run the corps) and the faculty (who instruct the members). It's not trying to make the activity something holier-than-thou, but rather a way of differentiating between two seperate facets of the corps' management.

Why not just say staff or instructors (who instruct members) and administrators/directors (who run the corps)? "Faculty" certainly wasn't the only option.

[Nex]

Why not just say staff or instructors (who instruct members) and administrators/directors (who run the corps)? "Faculty" certainly wasn't the only option.

Because then you'd get people complaining that "Tour Administrator" sounded pretentious. Plus, the distinction in our minds between "faculty" and "staff" are already set thanks to universities and such. It's not so much the words as the relationship between them that is commonly known to the public.

In other news . . . who really gives a flying something-or-other?

Edited March 1, 2007 by Nex