Loudest corps each year?

[Loud-is-good]

I'm not saying he's wrong. He's allowed to feel what he feels.

But I think I'm allowed to discount his opinion as well, given his lack of understanding of individual and ensemble brass playing.

And to reiterate, there's nothing wrong with playing loud. Brass instruments are inherently loud. It's just that there aren't many ensembles out there capable of matching sounds at those extreme volumes. The CSO can do it. Phantom Regiment can't, though they try.

Someone earlier stated "you can play with expression while maintaining balance and complete intonation." The CSO can do it. The Cavaliers can't, though they try.

[euponitone]

Play loud then figure it out > Figure it out then play loud

just mho

[raphael18]

There's a big difference between orchestral edge being played by top-notch orchestra players that have standard section sizes, as opposed to 12-20 players on a part that CAN and DO match extreme volumes and edge and 60+ amateur brass players playing with unmatched, strident sounds.

And each is great in its time and place - when you go to see drum corps you expect the latter. Point of distinction: only one of the above types performs while running around on a football field performing complex visual demands. I know we're focussing on the music, but I haven't heard to many people complaining about performance when the hornline is arced up.

[raphael18]

Brass instruments are inherently loud. It's just that there aren't many ensembles out there capable of matching sounds at those extreme volumes. The CSO can do it. Phantom Regiment can't, though they try.

A tiger dies a single death, a coward dies a thousand. If you don't have the guts to get out there on the edge, then don't be surprissed when people aren't impressed.

After the fact, people remmember when a tiger was there.

Edited April 11, 2007 by raphael18

[kksop17]

After reading about 24 pages of seemingly inane, incredibly circular debate it seems that this subject really comes down tot he fundamental question of expectations.

When certain members go to a Drum Corps Show they expect to hear "LOUD". Aka, blow your face off loud, with decent intonation, good tuning, and relatively matched sounds. Does this mean that they NEED to hear perfect intonation, perfect matching, perfect tuning? No, not likely. Their expectation for a Drum Corps show is an impressive, loud, showy, drum corps show.

For others they expect to hear a musical ensemble, playing well within it's limits with near perfect intonation, matching and tuning. This is all great and well. Are the two mutually exclusive? No, not really. No one wants to hear a low quality brass line blow the crap out of its horns. No one. Maybe it's loud... but who cares.... However, would many of us on this board sacrafice some matching, edginess, tuning etc for several more decibels in volume? Probably.

These units are not playing in a concert hall where the temperature, acoustics, and ensemble sound are all very carefully controlled. They are playing on a buggy, outdoor, football field (most of the time) where the temperature changes over the course of the night, the field conditions change, etc. It will never be perfect outdoor. Not to mention that many of them are running at 200+ beats per minute and their average age is usually about 19.

I believe that Drum Corps should be loud. Not at the cost of intonation, tuning, etc. However, would I take one edgey player over and 130+dB hornline over perfect matching and a 100dB hornline? Yes.

My expectation when I go to see the CSO, TSO, BSO is far different than when I see phantom. I don't go to hear Kenny Chesney and complain that it wasn't Metallica. I expect two different things from both of those shows. Those are different musical styles and should be treated as such. Drum Corps isn't a symphony, concert band or anything else. It's drum corps. It's original intention wasn't to be a concert band with great tone. It is a military institution.

[jake_the_hydra]

And each is great in its time and place - when you go to see drum corps you expect the latter. Point of distinction: only one of the above types performs while running around on a football field performing complex visual demands. I know we're focussing on the music, but I haven't heard to many people complaining about performance when the hornline is arced up.

Trust me, there are plenty of complaints to be had when hornlines are arced up.

[jake_the_hydra]

Someone earlier stated "you can play with expression while maintaining balance and complete intonation." The CSO can do it. The Cavaliers can't, though they try.

That's true . . . no ensemble in this activity maintains balance and complete intonation all the time.

[UTAmello]

Some of this stuff is just so ####### stupid!

I challenge anyone on this forum to go find a brass caption head that does not teach balance, intonation, and section blend over volume. You're not going to find them.

[Einstein On The Beach]

Some of this stuff is just so ####### stupid!

I challenge anyone on this forum to go find a brass caption head that does not teach balance, intonation, and section blend over volume. You're not going to find them.

Some caption heads give them equal weight. Dynamics ARE important you know

[Jared_mello]

I believe that Drum Corps should be loud. Not at the cost of intonation, tuning, etc. However, would I take one edgey player over and 130+dB hornline over perfect matching and a 100dB hornline? Yes.

I get your point, but this discussion isn't about "one edgey player" by any means. It's about 64 brass players (at the least) with poor technique, blend, intonation control, matched articulations, prioritizing "emotion"/volume/the effect for the audience over CORRECT BRASS PERFORMANCE TECHNIQUE, or simply concepts that ALL ENSEMBLES should always use.

im sorry, but like i said before, stop making excuses. raise your standards. there's more than one thing you can do on a field at once, and thats why SOME hornlines are remembered forever, and some may get a lot of applause at the time from the aforementioned "lowest common denominator" contingent but certainly don't go down in history or get scored nearly as well. its very much possible to play at loud dynamics and be in tune with everyone else so your ensemble sound is louder and more impressive (if simply just NOT IMMATURE and DISTRACTINGLY OUT OF TUNE), while still applying brass fundamentals that you would have in mind in a concert hall.

you dont need to be in a hornline that sounds like theyre performing in a concert hall to embrace the fundamentals that lead to you and your corps being respected as simply "great musicians."

you learn your hornline's techniques in the arc, refine them out on the field early season, MAINTAIN them during all circumstances while marching (its called practice), and eventually get to the level that playing loud is simply an attribute of moments of the music (and ideally everyone will go for it equally, or else it DOESN'T SOUND GOOD) rather than what happens when random members decide to overhype because theyre "feeling the moment" or whatever. by the end of the year, playing loud, while it obviously entails more intense moments in your show, is done consistantly by everyone in the ensemble and actually sounds impressive (and REALLY LOUD) if done correctly.

for those of you denouncing the musicality of drum corps in general, my simple answer is that you havent gotten out of it, what some of the rest of us have. im a much better brass player and musician just because i CAN play with respectable technique on the field while still doing everything that we do visually. when im sitting down and playing, its immeasurably easier, because the techniques are still there. stop sacrificing one for the other, it doesn't need to be that way at all.

im usually not a fan of posts with bits of capitalization thrown in, but it occured to me while i was posting that im just so frustrated by people in this thread that apparently im feeling the need to emphasize parts that bother me about some hornlines in the activity. for those of you who also dont like the caps in the responses, i apologize.