JimF-LowBari Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Hmm, I better let my brass caption head know to demote me then... OK, behind the garage you two and settle it like real lead sops... IOW, whoever gets more dogs howling is the winner. ^0^ :P Having seen Jeff in action this oughta be good..... B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein On The Beach Posted April 21, 2007 Author Share Posted April 21, 2007 OK, behind the garage you two and settle it like real lead sops...IOW, whoever gets more dogs howling is the winner. ^0^ :P Having seen Jeff in action this oughta be good..... B) Well I'm not a screamer...by any means. So he can have fun/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higherlouderfaster Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 OK, behind the garage you two and settle it like real lead sops...IOW, whoever gets more dogs howling is the winner. ^0^ :P Having seen Jeff in action this oughta be good..... B) Hi Jim, Unfortunately, it wouldn't be so good right now. As you know from the Westshore history thread, I have had a recent health set back that has affected my heart, lungs and kidneys. I'm making a come back, but haven't even tried to pick up the horn again yet. This morning I walked two miles in therapy. Before the coma, I was walking four miles a day in one hour. The two miles today took me 45 minutes, so I'm still a good bit under my old pace. However, when I got out of the hospital, I could only walk about 50 to 75 yards and I had to take a break. So to be walking two miles only five weeks later is very exciting. I hated missing the Forum concert this year, but hopefully I'll be back on stage by next years show. This past Sunday, I was back in the pulpit again for the first time since I went into the hospital. It really felt good, and my congregation was wonderfully supportive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistofflies Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 But you see, it wouldn't matter. If electronics are in, they count all the same, whether it's a real or sampled marimba. It's not the performers' concern or fault if the fake marimba doesn't sound as well... So I guess you're approaching this from a "if electronics get in anything goes" standpoint? My personal opinion is that if electronics were allowed there should be rules against using an electronic instrument to produce any sound that can already be produced acoustically (within reason) with the given instruments that we already have. How about that? Besides, this isn't about samples per se, rather this is George Hopkins attempting to pull the wool over eyes with sampling to get woodwinds in. This is not and has never been about adding a Moog. It's about getting different instruments on the field. Well first of all, are you sure about that? And second of all, to me, adding electronic instruments IS about getting a Moog out there. I think that would be pretty sweet, IF used well. I'm imaging a sort of Daft Punk/LCD Soundsystem/Bloc Party/etc.-meets-drum corps kind of thing going on. Better yet, I'd like to see somebody get a Continuum down there with Kyma. I'm imagining a synthesis of drum corps as we know it today with electronic techniques of sound manipulation that would allow for some very interesting effects. What's especially interesting about Kyma is that it's a real-time sound manipulation software suite. Listen to some of the sound examples on the website, it's pretty incredible. Oh and if you can get your hands on Shadows of a Former Self by Rex Richardson listen to that. All of those only display a minute fraction of what that software is capable of. And if you're not sure about whether sampling other instruments can be real, check this out. No loops. Nada. Just playing samples. I am aware that samples can be very realistic but you generally don't get that level of realism without investing in expensive equipment and expansive libraries, no? Finally, the part about not noticing, etc... there are a few people in this world that believe that a corps or two may be using EQs, despite them being illegal. There's good reason to use it at times, but it is definitely against the rules now. There may be a corps or two using reverb, as well... but no one has been penalized, much less checked for it yet. I wasn't aware of this debate, and I'm curious as to how a corps would be able to get away with using EQs on the field without a judge...you know...seeing it? But anyway, if it is happening, that just shows even more why we need open, intelligent debate on this matter (even if it's just on the use of amplification and the mics) to discuss how to monitor and control electronics so that people don't get away with cheating. In my mind, cheating with electronics is not different than cheating by having aged-out members in your corps. You may get away with it for a little while but you will be caught eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Great news you're back in the pulpit Jeff as you're in my prayers with a lot of other people recently. Some of my extended family members have had health problems with slow recoveries over the last few years and sounds like your attitude is really helping. Next year I'll have to stop by and introduce myself. I remembered what you wrote in the Westshore thread but did not bring it up here as it is part of your personal life. Just having some fun with you and Einstein. Oh yeah, as a 3rd Bari I don't have fun playing high.... I have fun playing low and LOUD. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistofflies Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Wow, that seems so impressive. Excerpts from the 1994 DCI judging sheets. But the rest of us can find that material on the Internet too. Ok, well then show me how much the wording has changed from then to now. It's practically the same, no? Are you going to address the actual point I'm making or just keep dodging the bullet? OK, I can't make this mind-blisteringly clear, because it's not as simple as black-and-white. Demand is relative. Judging is subjective. Judges are human. Combine those three truths, and you must acknowledge that some amount of sonic synthesis can be mixed into a DCI performance without the pertinent judge adjusting his score to reflect the true demand and achievement involved (if we even agree on what that is). So if electronics are allowed it's the end of the world as we know it? Should I start telling my family members that I love them, start visiting all my favorite places one last time? Great. But let's not lose the distinction drumcat is making regarding quality of sound - the challenges of the brass and/or percussion performer that the synth player need not conquer because they're pre-programmed into the sample. Yes but let's also not lose the distinction I'm talking about. I'm not advocating samples. I'm advocating use of electronic equipment to make sounds that are not already available with the current acoustic instruments we already have in the activity. Hey, it got them to that "box 5" level you were just talking about. Still, I'm not sure how that has any bearing on a discussion about electronics being allowed in drum corps. Read my post, please. It doesn't matter if they're playing the part, or if the judge can see that detail from the press box (both debatable already). Cut the amps to the marimbas, and crank up the synth, and the judge is no longer hearing what he's seeing.If you know so much about the "current judging system", then you should realize that GE judges are not on the field. I do know that, but if electronics were allowed I'm sure they would either have someone on the field monitoring the situation OR have the current field judges keep an "eye out." That's what I was talking about. Nice hyperbole. Wait - you don't really think that's what I was saying, do you? No, it was exactly that: hyperbole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistofflies Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Read my post, please. It doesn't matter if they're playing the part, or if the judge can see that detail from the press box (both debatable already). Cut the amps to the marimbas, and crank up the synth, and the judge is no longer hearing what he's seeing. I should also add that you seem to be approaching the idea of adding electronics with the attitude "Well if they could perform it perfectly night after night using electronics why wouldn't they?" And as a contrast, my approach is this: First, it would be foolish to just use electronics to reproduce sounds that can be produced using current acoustic instruments because for one thing, what happens if the weather turns bad? What happens if your equipment is ruined on a particularly bumpy ride? What happens if a power surge fries your synth? And besides that, if you were to program a loop or something like that, you leave no room for human error. What happens if the ensemble tears and the pre-recorded parts just keep chugging along? In my mind, there are too many ways that trying to "cheat" by being lazy would come back to bite you on the butt to make it worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X DM Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 (edited) I have a feeling that a lot of people are forming an opinion on something they have little to no knowledge of. It'll e interesting to learn of the judges training, experience, etc when it comes to future " voice judging " in a show. Few have talked about the very real possibilty of competitions being judged in the future by judges " forming an opinion on something they have little or no knowlwdge of ". Just what is the judges qualifications to judge voice ensemble anyway ? Are these judges singers, ? former singers ? trained and schooled singers ? What if corps has a singer or singing ensemble singing with poor voice modulation, technique, or even GREAT technigue, voice projection, etc...... would the judge even know ? I heard a Corps with a singer that to my ears was singing out of tune. Was the Corps score hurt because of this ? If not, why not ? The singer was out front and was made to be a central focus in the movement as a voice soloist. And we haven't even begun to look at the judges qualifications in electronic synthesizers judging. These are interesting questions to pose, no ? As we move forward, it's always a good idea with so much riding on the line in these judged competitions to simply ask a basic question......" what are the judges qualifications to judge these new components we are incorporating in Drum Corps shows these days ?" Edited April 21, 2007 by X DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistofflies Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 (edited) I have a feeling that a lot of people are forming an opinion on something they have little to no knowledge of. It'll e interesting to learn of the judges training, experience, etc when it comes to future " voice judging " in a show. Few have talked about the very real possibilty of competitions being judged in the future by judges " forming an opinion on something they have little or no knowlwdge of ". Just what is the judges qualifications to judge voice ensemble anyway ? Are these judges singers, ? former singers ? trained and schooled singers ? What if corps has a singer or singing ensemble singing with poor voice modulation, technique, or even GREAT technigue, voice projection, etc...... would the judge even know ? I heard a Corps with a singer that to my ears was singing out of tune. Was the Corps score hurt because of this ? If not, why not ? The singer was out front and was made to be a central focus in the movement as a soloist. And we haven't even begun to look at the judges qualifications in electronic synthesizers judging. These are interesting questions to pose, no ? As we move forward, it's always a good idea with so much riding on the line in these judged competitions to simply ask a basic question......" what are the judges qualifications to judge these new components we are incorporating in Drum Corps shows these days ?" You raise some great points, and I wholeheartedly agree. Unfortunately, people have to be willing to actually discuss the issues before solutions can be reached. Too many people want to go straight from "OH NOES ELECTRONICS AND VOICE!" to "OH NOES END OF THE WORLD!!111one" without giving any middle ground to consider how it would actually be...I don't know...applied. Edited April 21, 2007 by mistofflies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meaghatron Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 You raise some great points, and I wholeheartedly agree.Unfortunately, people have to be willing to actually discuss the issues before solutions can be reached. Too many people want to go straight from "OH NOES ELECTRONICS AND VOICE!" to "OH NOES END OF THE WORLD!!111one" without giving any middle ground to consider how it would actually be...I don't know...applied. I've watched a BOA competition. It was good. DCI is better. Even if BOA had the talent of DCI, I still would prefer DCI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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