Required Components?

[garfield_cadets]

I posted a thread about this before, but I can't find it, so it must have been on the old board.

Should WGI have required components, like in figure skating?

I believe it would be interesting, it would definitely give a bar for judging.

What say you?

[Jeremy Denzer]

I think the main difference is that in figure skating the technique is very defined. In colorguard the defined technique can very from unit to unit. This would make adjudication of required elements difficult.

[garfield_cadets]

I think the main difference is that in figure skating the technique is very defined. In colorguard the defined technique can very from unit to unit. This would make adjudication of required elements difficult.

There are advanced basics on each peice of equipment that are pretty much standard across the board. I'm not talking about "trick" moves or the latest trend in how to toss your equipment.

Take rifle for example. A required component would be at least one ensemble 7. Fufilling that component, and executing it flawlessly would be the bar standard. Anything less would be judged lower, no?

[Musical_Spinner]

Yeah they're are standards but they are set by the guards themselves by the majority of the guards that can do a

particular skill. I think the original question is more about having definite guidelines by the judges and on the sheets.

If I am remembering correctly you at least have to spin equipment for 2:30 (right, can some verify the length of time?)

There's one requirement or standard.

I don't think weapon tosses have to do with anything. In 2005 NL they had about 8 rifles toss an 8, but just because they did it doesn't mean everyone did or even could.

Conversely in Oracle 2004, I THINK, nobody tosses a 6 on rifle or sabre. I think in 2006 was the first time I saw a group of spinners toss a six together, and in 05 I think they had a couple soloists toss a six. So it's my belief rifle tosses and sabre tosses have nothing to do with scores or requirements (or at least not directly)

[guardjul123]

wouldn't that be like taking 10 giant steps backwards to the days when you had required elements and got points deducted for errors. I think it would stifell creativity. So I vote NO

[garfield_cadets]

Yeah they're are standards but they are set by the guards themselves by the majority of the guards that can do a particular skill.

Good point. Any idea what could be added to a list of components that are standard across the board? Would certain dance/body movement components be included, or just equipment?

I think the original question is more about having definite guidelines by the judges and on the sheets.

There is definite truth in that statement.

I don't think weapon tosses have to do with anything. In 2005 NL they had about 8 rifles toss an 8, but just because they did it doesn't mean everyone did or even could.

Conversely in Oracle 2004, I THINK, nobody tosses a 6 on rifle or sabre. I think in 2006 was the first time I saw a group of spinners toss a six together, and in 05 I think they had a couple soloists toss a six. So it's my belief rifle tosses and sabre tosses have nothing to do with scores or requirements (or at least not directly)

I see your point. But would not a standard be, since we are supposed to be teaching these kids to be the best guard members, spiritually, physically AND technically, for such a thing as an ensemble 7 or 8? Tosses are just one idea of it. There are plenty of other examples that could be applied.

I guess my thoughts on it are not just certain skills, but to push ALL guards to perform at a certain level consitently, not just as a judging bar. Does that make sence?

Also, I think it ties in to going back to rewarding members technical skill, not just rewarding a designer for their show concept. It ties into the old "clean & simple" v/s "hard & a little sloppy" argument. I have so many ideas running around inside my head about all this I hope I'm making sence! LOL

wouldn't that be like taking 10 giant steps backwards to the days when you had required elements and got points deducted for errors. I think it would stifell creativity. So I vote NO

I'm not saying limit creativity, but would not the true test of designers AND performers be a way of incorporating technical standards that all units adhere to and designing with those parameters, not limited by them?

The same debate is going on in drum corps circles about "rules" and what limits creativity and innovation. With WGI/winter guard in general being a more open & uninhibited art form, would some structure not maybe allow a different springboard for creative thought?

Also, with there not being any standard, the debate about Aimachi and whether their equipment book was world class or not. Maybe a set of standard required components eliminate such debate, and possibly ties, if units could be judged by those standards?

Anybody else feel free to jump in the discussion! This is an interesting concept!

[Jak]

An ensemble 7? Good luck finding more than a few guards that can do that!

[Musical_Spinner]

The same debate is going on in drum corps circles about "rules" and what limits creativity and innovation. With WGI/winter guard in general being a more open & uninhibited art form, would some structure not maybe allow a different springboard for creative thought?

Interesting thought! Maybe if WGI forced guards to do certain things they would have to change their "formulas"

(I know i just said the dreaded F word, lets all fight about it!).......

It is still pretty standard to see guards do all flag features at the end, I wish that was something wgi forced them to change.........I know Ars Nova did a really hot flag feature at the beginning of their show (and at the end) and i loved it!

Esperanza De Luz also did a big beginning feature in 04, that one was fun too.

I think the that trend of middle of the show flag features will eventually catch on......

[Stick Stack]

Yeah they're are standards but they are set by the guards themselves by the majority of the guards that can do a

particular skill. I think the original question is more about having definite guidelines by the judges and on the sheets.

If I am remembering correctly you at least have to spin equipment for 2:30 (right, can some verify the length of time?)

There's one requirement or standard.

I don't think weapon tosses have to do with anything. In 2005 NL they had about 8 rifles toss an 8, but just because they did it doesn't mean everyone did or even could.

Conversely in Oracle 2004, I THINK, nobody tosses a 6 on rifle or sabre. I think in 2006 was the first time I saw a group of spinners toss a six together, and in 05 I think they had a couple soloists toss a six. So it's my belief rifle tosses and sabre tosses have nothing to do with scores or requirements (or at least not directly)

For what it's worth, to clear it up, I just watched Oracle in 2004 on my DVD. It looked like they had a rifle 6 close to the beginning and a sabre 6 near the middle. Both had about 8 or so people at least.

I think as it is right now, there are required standards in shows, but they are vague and very nebulous. I think it wouldn't hurt too much to have a few required elements. That would make it much easier to compare one guard from the other I would think.

[M2S]

Take rifle for example. A required component would be at least one ensemble 7. Fufilling that component, and executing it flawlessly would be the bar standard. Anything less would be judged lower, no?

Considering a minimum of 5 members is needed to compete in WGI, how do you define "ensemble"?