Required Components?

[garfield_cadets]

The focus on the triad has allowed for more difficulty than you could ever get with only one or two of the elements at a time. In addition, removing the body from the equation would sterilize the equipment work by eliminating most expressive qualities.

Oh, I don't think movement should be eliminated by any means. I just feel it has become the focus of designers and the posibilities of show design and equipment work has suffered because of it.

I agree with your post in the other thread that a total integration of all elements is the ideal. Thing is, that's not been happening.

[Jak]

I can't remember who did it now, but someone in the mid 90's had 7' poles & the silk was taped exactly in the middle, allowing for use of both ends of the pole, which was very effective, and something I remember 10+ years later.

As long as we're traveling down memory lane, do you remember in 98 when Blessed Sac spun 3 flags at one time? Full size 6' poles; 3 flags per girl. It was great!

[normandRLINE]

off topic, but...i march ventures, an IO guard. if you can't do a 6, you don't make the rifle or saber line. we were able to toss, and most of the time nail ensemble 6's. heck, our show started with a riple 6 by 12 sabers. are you kidding that very few world guards could do ensemble 7's? it seems like that should be one of (not the only) the major differences between the classes. although, when i look back at SW especially, there were very few tosses above 5's until we reached avon. ensemble wise, anyway.

sorry...you can carry on with the discussion. i'm just taking aback by that one comment.

until we reached avon and logan you mean.

[M2S]

until we reached avon and logan you mean.

Well Logan was after Avon, so once we reached James Logan, we had already reached Avon.

[garfield_cadets]

As long as we're traveling down memory lane, do you remember in 98 when Blessed Sac spun 3 flags at one time? Full size 6' poles; 3 flags per girl. It was great!

Yeah, I thought about putting that in the "what's effective" thread. We had a discussion on the old board about double equipment work, but triple work just takes it to a whole other level, especially when it's done extremely well.

I thought Pride's "Stand Up" show was creatively written as far as the double/triple work they did, although I felt more could have been done.

There were several examples this year of units performing double work, didn't see any triple though.

Edited April 30, 2007 by garfield_cadets

[deftguy]

wouldn't that be like taking 10 giant steps backwards to the days when you had required elements and got points deducted for errors. I think it would stifell creativity. So I vote NO

You will never understand how wrong you are. The tick system made you as guard perfect your program to a degree that they do not have to now. Phasing in a spin was not nearly a problem as it is now. The overall "look" of a guard was much more distinct and clean than it is now. There were no "individual" techniques sticking out like there are now. You couldn't hide the inability to clean a certain portion of your show by just doing a series of solo work so you didn't have to(something I see way too much these days). You have to clean and perfect everything because most everything was done in unison. Working within a set of guidelines actually helped creativity, because you had to think out of the box, while remaining clean and interesting to the crowd.

This is not a comparison of old school and new, but an observation of what I see now versus what I experienced when I marched.

Edited May 2, 2007 by deftguy

[deftguy]

Oh, I don't think movement should be eliminated by any means. I just feel it has become the focus of designers and the posibilities of show design and equipment work has suffered because of it.

I agree with your post in the other thread that a total integration of all elements is the ideal. Thing is, that's not been happening.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

[Musical_Spinner]

You will never understand how wrong you are. The tick system made you as guard perfect your program to a degree that they do not have to now. Phasing in a spin was not nearly a problem as it is now. The overall "look" of a guard was much more distinct and clean than it is now. There were no "individual" techniques sticking out like there are now. You couldn't hide the inability to clean a certain portion of your show by just doing a series of solo work so you didn't have to(something I see way too much these days). You have to clean and perfect everything because most everything was done in unison.

This is not a comparison of old school and new, but an observation of what I see now versus what I experienced when I marched.

Granted it might be cleaner and more together, but the creativity would slow down and not grow as much because designers and choreographers won't want to push the limits cause they would be afraid their show would slow down.

You also implied that guards hide dirt by having solos to distract judges, I doubt most guard designers and instructors are just going to stand by and idle and not clean a part.....or if they do, that's just bad guard teaching/designing. As a performer I would be upset if that was happening, because I am the one out there and I am being judged by the audience and judges and I would be the one looking bad.

[deftguy]

Granted it might be cleaner and more together, but the creativity would slow down and not grow as much because designers and choreographers won't want to push the limits cause they would be afraid their show would slow down.

It didn't, it actually moved it forward much more rapidly. All one has to do is look at WGI in the 80's. I marched in the Cavaliers winter guard in 81,82, and 83. Creatively speaking, 81 was so different from 83 its not funny, and this is with the same rules and guidlines. If you look at all guards from 80-84, 80 was as different from 84 as the 90's were from 2006. The idea of required components stifling creativity has not been born out in reality.

You also implied that guards hide dirt by having solos to distract judges, I doubt most guard designers and instructors are just going to stand by and idle and not clean a part.....or if they do, that's just bad guard teaching/designing. As a performer I would be upset if that was happening, because I am the one out there and I am being judged by the audience and judges and I would be the one looking bad.

I didn't imply that guards hide dirt by having solos distract judges. I said designers will change a difficult unison move that they cannot clean into solo work they don't have to clean. It is much easier to do so than to spend alot of time cleaning a difficult unison move. Since you as the performer didn't create the drill, it would could easily be perceived as a creative "change of mind". I didn't say they didn't try, they did, but they must have felt that time would be better spent on other parts of the show.

[Will]

It didn't, it actually moved it forward much more rapidly. All one has to do is look at WGI in the 80's. I marched in the Cavaliers winter guard in 81,82, and 83. Creatively speaking, 81 was so different from 83 its not funny, and this is with the same rules and guidlines. If you look at all guards from 80-84, 80 was as different from 84 as the 90's were from 2006. The idea of required components stifling creativity has not been born out in reality.

I didn't imply that guards hide dirt by having solos distract judges. I said designers will change a difficult unison move that they cannot clean into solo work they don't have to clean. It is much easier to do so than to spend alot of time cleaning a difficult unison move. Since you as the performer didn't create the drill, it would could easily be perceived as a creative "change of mind". I didn't say they didn't try, they did, but they must have felt that time would be better spent on other parts of the show.

Amen to that!