Required Components?

[JUSTJOSH]

off topic, but...i march ventures, an IO guard. if you can't do a 6, you don't make the rifle or saber line. we were able to toss, and most of the time nail ensemble 6's. heck, our show started with a riple 6 by 12 sabers. are you kidding that very few world guards could do ensemble 7's? it seems like that should be one of (not the only) the major differences between the classes. although, when i look back at SW especially, there were very few tosses above 5's until we reached avon. ensemble wise, anyway.

sorry...you can carry on with the discussion. i'm just taking aback by that one comment.

Edited April 23, 2007 by JUSTJOSH

[garfield_cadets]

Considering a minimum of 5 members is needed to compete in WGI, how do you define "ensemble"?

Ah! Intersting point! Looking at things realistically, when have you last seen an open or world class unit with less than, say, 15 members? Most, if not all, I have seen the last 15-20 years are at least 20.

What WOULD one consider an ensemble? Hmmm...in my thinking it would be however many people are on that particular peice of equipment at that particular time the component was executed. If at least 5 were on the equipment (flag/rifle/sabre) when the move was executed I would consider that an ensemble.

On the other hand, ensemble could mean the unit as a whole, all 20-30 members.

BTW, is there a rule stating a unit has to be limited to a certain number of members? I've never come across the question before. (Like drum corps is limited)

I would assume from a design standpoint, too many members on the floor would limit movement/drill, etc.

[M2S]

BTW, is there a rule stating a unit has to be limited to a certain number of members? I've never come across the question before. (Like drum corps is limited)

Between 5 and 30 members.

Looking at things realistically, when have you last seen an open or world class unit with less than, say, 15 members? Most, if not all, I have seen the last 15-20 years are at least 20.

movement/drill, etc.

I've been in an Open class colorguard for the past 4 years, and the most members we've had in that time was 18. The least was 8. In 2005, Brigadiers had 6 members in IO, I believe. I remember Onyx having fewer than 10 in 2004. I think Interplay (IO) was under 15 that year. Kings HS in SO had 8 that year. Croatan had 6 in 2005 in SO, and 10(ish) in IO in 2006. Signature 2005 was comprised of around 13 members. I could go on for a while.

I definitely think colorguards average 15-20 members. There are certainly quite a few small teams representing the Open and World classes. Top world class teams certainly average in the upper 20s, but the rest of the colorguard population does not.

[garfield_cadets]

I definitely think colorguards average 15-20 members. There are certainly quite a few small teams representing the Open and World classes. Top world class teams certainly average in the upper 20s, but the rest of the colorguard population does not.

Yah, I was mostly refering to finalist units in the world & open classes. I should have been more clear. :)

I have seen some amazing small groups. Yay for the small guards!

That brings up another hypothetical question (God, I am on a roll the last few days! Somebody pull me away from winter guard!). Would it be better to have a smaller guard (say 10 members) who could all execute advanced technique, or a bigger guard (20-30) where different skill levels watered down technique?

I'm hijacking my own threads....

Edited April 23, 2007 by garfield_cadets

[Jak]

off topic, but...i march ventures, an IO guard. if you can't do a 6, you don't make the rifle or saber line. we were able to toss, and most of the time nail ensemble 6's. heck, our show started with a riple 6 by 12 sabers. are you kidding that very few world guards could do ensemble 7's? it seems like that should be one of (not the only) the major differences between the classes. although, when i look back at SW especially, there were very few tosses above 5's until we reached avon. ensemble wise, anyway.

sorry...you can carry on with the discussion. i'm just taking aback by that one comment.

No, I'm afraid there are very few guards in any class that are throwing ensemble 7's. Also, I don't think you have a very strong understanding of the class structure or criteria reference system if you think the only difference between Open and World Class is throwing a 7.

To me that sums up a big problem I had with WGI this year. Everything was about the vertical toss. What happened to nuance, moving great, being beautifully designed, being expressive with your equipment? Granted there are still some groups that do all those things, but it seemed like we couldn't go 16 counts without somebody chucking a 5.

By the way, speaking of groups that are nuanced, move great, and are being beautifully designed, Kennesaw Mountain had 13 performers last year, and Center Grove had 12. And I thought they were both works of art.

[garfield_cadets]

No, I'm afraid there are very few guards in any class that are throwing ensemble 7's. Also, I don't think you have a very strong understanding of the class structure or criteria reference system if you think the only difference between Open and World Class is throwing a 7.

I kinda agree with you on this, but could you expound a bit more? The whole reason there is a differentiating class system in the first place is the skill level.

[M2S]

Yah, I was mostly refering to finalist units in the world & open classes. I should have been more clear. :)

I was as well, and all the units I mentioned were finalists, and that's just in the past couple of years.

[garfield_cadets]

I was as well, and all the units I mentioned were finalists, and that's just in the past couple of years.

So what is your point wanting to argue numbers? You know full well what I meant.

Years and number of members change in most units, sans top contenders, mostly.

Like I said, the one's I've seen the last 15-20 or so years are 20 members or so, give or take, at least. Then again, I don't run around counting heads on the floor, either.

Since you seem to focus more on the smaller groups, our perspectives are different, I guess.

Edited April 24, 2007 by garfield_cadets

[Musical_Spinner]

For what it's worth, to clear it up, I just watched Oracle in 2004 on my DVD. It looked like they had a rifle 6 close to the beginning and a sabre 6 near the middle. Both had about 8 or so people at least.

I think as it is right now, there are required standards in shows, but they are vague and very nebulous. I think it wouldn't hurt too much to have a few required elements. That would make it much easier to compare one guard from the other I would think.

I'll have to pull out my dvd and watch it.

[Will]

The first year I marched winter guard, we started out in world class... from what I remember, the WGI manual said that we had to have certain types of movement (leaps, turns, etc) and we about killed ourselves incorporating it into the show. Can anyone verify this?? Does the WGI Manual actually break down certain "requirements" that each class is expected to acheive??

I think it is highly odd that the Scholastic World class is rather thin when it comes to throwing 5's and 6's consistently. I mean, some of the groups attempt (and often excell) at it, but good grief, Centerville (and I LOVED their show this year BTW) kept throwing quads right and left.. I just kept waiting for at least 4 of them to throw a 6 together (they've done it before).

BUT I also kept thinking how young all the kids looked this year (especially in Scholasic world). Even some of the Logan kids looked young. So, I think it would be hard to maintain ALL required elements needed year, after year, when you've got new kids coming in all the time. I guess thats' why we have "Varisty" and "Junior varsity" guards...

Anyway: required elements for each class would be neat. I think the trick would be who can be the most creative while also meeting all the requirements. If you want to throw your ensemble 7 (I can't wait for that to happen in Scholastic A!!), why not turn underneath it and catch. Or toss, trade places, and catch.

Just thoughts... this is an interesting discussion...