Woodwinds

[audiodb]

1) You guys assume that WW's fail because no one will like them.

Well, then, why did the summer marching band activity dwindle from a continent-wide distribution of bands in local, regional and national-level circuits to under a dozen bands in one regional circuit, while drum corps has 50 corps and a fan base of even larger relative proportions?

DCI draws most because it's currently the most rehearsed out there.

So the summer marching band activity didn't succeed because they didn't practice enough?

2) "Just make your own circuit if you really want it!" This doesn't make sense either. It's much easier just to let woodwinds into DCI and make DCI bigger instead of channeling it off into different circuits.

Of course it would be easier if some pre-existing multi-million dollar operation would give up what it is currently doing to serve at your whim instead. But that's not how the world works.

Now, if there were enough others sharing your personal taste to sell 300,000 tickets each summer, then I'll bet you'd find plenty of help in getting that circuit going. For that matter, if there were 50 summer marching bands interested in developing a national tour and championship, it would probably already be happening annually.

3) There isn't much of a difference between BOA and DCI besides rehearsal hours and tour schedules. This is what most of us basically disagree on. With staffs interchanging between the two, and designs being stolen between the two, it really doesn't matter anymore.

Huh?

I guess you don't know much about the business operations of these groups. BOA shows are basically pay-to-play. The bands, all tax-subsidized scholastic programs, generate the money that makes these events possible. BOA has each participating band commit to buy a couple hundred tickets for the event, and only runs events that have 16 or more such bands, thus guaranteeing enough money to cover the event costs. BOA, thus, takes very little financial risk. They get their money whether anyone sits in those seats or not.

Meanwhile, DCI makes much of their revenue from running their own focus events, taking the risk (and reaping the reward) of an event that must draw a crowd to succeed. Of course, DCI has about 100 more shows in a season compared to BOA, and those additional events are run by tour event partners, independent show sponsors from various locations all over the tour map who are willing to take on the financial risk/reward of running a DCI event. Division I DCI corps don't pay to participate in a show - they get paid. This, of course, is necessary to help cover the costs of the tour for these self-funding groups.

DCI and their participating corps didn't just accidentally discover this method of making money to offset some portion of their operating expenses - they have been working at developing and marketing their product since before they invented DCI. Their survival depends on it succeeding. It's a whole different ball game from scholastic band.

4) The majority of people that are anti-WW are ignorantly anti-WW, the immature attitude (which they will never admit on here) of "psh, what the F*** I'd F***ing kick someone's ### if I saw a F***ing flute on the field". Lame <**>

That is not a majority, only a few trolls.

You probably think of me as "anti-woodwind", since I seem to favor keeping drum & bugle corps as a brass/percussion activity. That is not the case. I would like to see summer marching band develop itself, should there be sufficient interest. I am convinced that it needs to develop as a separate organization, though, for it's own good as well as that of drum corps. That may not seem like the "easy way" at first glance, but it is the only way for both to succeed, IMO.

[testonator]

Haha, nice to see we're debating this again:

1) You guys assume that WW's fail because no one will like them. DCI draws most because it's currently the most rehearsed out there. Blast II failing just because of WW's? Please, it's not like people are disgusted when they see a ww instrument.

2) "Just make your own circuit if you really want it!" This doesn't make sense either. It's much easier just to let woodwinds into DCI and make DCI bigger instead of channeling it off into different circuits.

3) There isn't much of a difference between BOA and DCI besides rehearsal hours and tour schedules. This is what most of us basically disagree on. With staffs interchanging between the two, and designs being stolen between the two, it really doesn't matter anymore.

4) The majority of people that are anti-WW are ignorantly anti-WW, the immature attitude (which they will never admit on here) of "psh, what the F*** I'd F***ing kick someone's ### if I saw a F***ing flute on the field". Lame <**>

How does making your own circuit not make sense. Its as simple as you could put it....Just because its easier doesnt mean thats the way it should happen.. It would be easier for me to watch people run on tv than to actually run myself, but it wont help me get in better shape....its pretty obvious that most people on DCP arent really in favor of adding woodwinds, you might want to try the Marching Band Planet Forum...you might get a better response

[xmenjeffb]

So staying within the same instrument family as drums and bugles (percussion and brass) is no different than going outside of those families and adding WW? I don't get it. How many members would have to be added to the current roster in order to affectively balance woodwinds, brass, and percussion? When does the visual on the field start hurting? At 200? At 300?

Those who play woodwinds can enjoy marching band and other ensembles throughout high school and college. However, drum corps is a unique sound. Why should WW be added when teens/young adults can already compete in high school marching bands and play in college marching bands? I don't understand why drum corps can't be left alone as percussion, brass, and guard. Please, someone tell me what is so horrible about keeping it this way.

I certainly am not saying it is horrible to stay as it is . My argument is with those you say it will kill the summer touring groups.

Personally i prefer bugles over Bb for volume,but the qaulity is way better with Bb.

However , with every little change that has been made the sound and look has changed. In that process we have lost some fans and gained new ones.

I think before we see woodwinds we will see limits placed on the use of the woodwind voice.By that i mean amplified woodwind voices to allow for the color to be used but at a minimal amount of new bodies.

[Triple Forte]

Haha, nice to see we're debating this again:

4) The majority of people that are anti-WW are ignorantly anti-WW, the immature attitude (which they will never admit on here) of "psh, what the F*** I'd F***ing kick someone's ### if I saw a F***ing flute on the field". Lame <**>

I feel you are greatly flawed in your assesment. I am against WW in drum corps. I like the all-brass and percussion sound. Open a poll for this and I am sure you will find that most who are against WW's will say the same basic thing.

How many opportunities are there for WW players to perform in groups that include WW instrumentation?

How many opportunities are there for people to perform in an all-brass/perc. group ?

DC is unique.....and should remain so.....nothing else sounds like it.

[oldtimedrummer]

So when do we get to add brass to the bagpipe groups and string quartets. ^0^

Makes as much (or as little) sense as adding WWs to a brass/percussion group.

[MikeD]

Drum corps have performed at sporting events. That doesn't make them a marching band, even for 10 minutes. Again, I'm going by instrumentation only, and not any of that other stuff.

How is a drum corps not a marching band? They march and play music.

[MikeD]

Why does this have to spin off from the DCI organization? Why cant someone go off and start their own brand new circuit? If they want it bad enough....go start it up. Why tamper with something that is doing fairly well as is? I know why they wont.....they don't want to take the risk and it is much easier to jump on the coat tails of something that is already established.

Adding woodwinds would be foolish in my opinion. A whole host of fans will bail if woodwinds are allowed....period. Will DCI be able to attract enough new fans to make up for the ones that leave ? That is an interesting question that I dont believe anyone can answer. My opinion is that they wont......especially the folks who fill the premo seats at the big events......

IMO the summer activity is not large enough to support another national organization, so DCI would be much better to keep the groups they have, whatever form they take.

[MikeD]

But WHYYYY do woodwinds need to be let in? What's so terrible about drum corps being brass and percussion? Drum corps doesn't have to be equal-opportunity for instruments, and as the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it..."

I feel like the last 15 pages of argument have been going in one big circle.

OTOH, there is nothing wrong with permitting WW if DCI so chooses.

And yes, these arguments always seem like deja vu all over again. :P

[MikeD]

And what would be the benefits of WW being added to DCI?

You would then have more spots to march, as IMO they would have to up the numbers to 200 or so.

Plus, there would be more diversity as you would have some bras/perc and some brasws/WW/perc.

[MikeD]

You have made some very valid points. It's just very unfortunate that the words "faggiest" and "faggy" will lower your credibility level.

Actually the rest of his points equal the terms her used. I did not see anything of value.