C.Holland

In theory bud, you only make that mistake once. Then you tell someone later about it bwahahahaahahah.

hahahahahaha. i've seen that happen as well. too often. I've also seen the "just because you have a (insert higher level degree)" doesn't mean you can write. (or teach) oye. In regards to Jazzer... i think that unless you've got a large enough bag of money to get one of the big names to come on board as an actual collaborator, and not just a sideman/hired gun, you're not getting what they truly can create well with your theme. I've know two who we could send drill or arrangements/work back to and they'd rethink it with our notes, and not give us crap for it. (even though we paid extra)

sorry. that was a response to brasso i'm still a little peeved about the cost of that show, which required a full starting from scratch. had the group had the new show instead the season would have likely turned out better.

so this year will be a huge light up LED rocket ship? awesome.

But you made a blanket statement that they didn't do this sort of thing. That was a large bag of money tossed at someone who spoke a big game. And then sent us toilet paper with scribbles on it. I'm not certain this was an exception, but their norm judging by the treatment we received.

I can tell you for a fact, after working for a group that purchased a design from a visual designer from a top 3 World Class corps... We got the short end of the stick. Because we weren't #1 on their list. We got a piece of garbage that had to be rewritten (by someone else) 5 weeks in because they couldn't be troubled to worry about the little corps or the lack of effectiveness of their design. They just phoned it in, and called in done. So yes, the did give us a way less creative design turd to attempt to glitter and paint.

See though, I can't find that stats from the last few seasons, but many corps have a pretty good retention rate at this point. I can only thing of 3 that have really low %. While you can do well with member retention, you still have to set those people up for success. That doesn't happen with membership, it happens in show creation in the offseason.

+1 to you for stating this. I agree. Watering it down will do the same to the shows.

I always liked that quarters included the Open class (or div 2/3 for us older kids), because it gave us the chance to see how we stacked up against the rest on a common field. East Coast Jazz, Spartans, Legends, Patriots, BDB, SCVC, and a countless number of other OC corps show that while they didn't have the budgets to tour like the world class, they could still hang with them and even teach them a thing or two. Semis should still be 17 to me. Finals 12. Simply because seeing how the 10 thru 14 corps on any given day can actually influence where they land with their performance of that day.

You as a staff are ALWAYS concerned about where your corps and captions place. You don't want the membership to have that idea though. Because there's a lot of it that's out of their control. I would say that very few corps stress placement to the members. It does you no good. However, you do want to design the best possible package to set your membership up for success.

We all had pride of performance. I know in most of the corps (yes, even that one at the top of the food chain) there is no weight placed upon membership to achieve better scores, only better performances from their perspective. They are never told that "we need to hit 80" by a certain point of the summer. Only to constantly be working to produce the best performance that they can possibly do, and to always take everything up one notch from the previous rep or performance. But if you take away the competition aspect... then it's exhibition... which is lame. It's no longer marching music's major league. Letting everyone play on friday and saturday makes it an exhibition.

So the answer to help corps place better is to water down the friday and saturday performance and make it totally irrelevant? WHAT? You're right. It doesn't have a snowballs chance because well, that's not the answer to corps wanting to place better. If 19-25 want to place better, they need to design better shows and acquire teaching staff that can get the most out of their students. That doesn't equate to more money being thrown at the problem, but it does require them to have their stuff together sooner in than they have before. Its not about lowering the standard. When I marched in Div 2, there were several div 2/3 corps that placed above corps like Spirit and Troopers. Was it good for them, no, but it was good for us to show that corps with 30 horns could come out with better scores than those with double the membership. We didn't have the cash they did, or the membership, but we had the talent and the vision to crack some skulls.

sexy. They have a couple of brass spots left now. Tuba, and a trumpet. So YOU would get to play on these awesome new horns (if you play trumpet) and come take that last spot.

so the answer is to let EVERYONE play on saturday? gross. you've just taken the meaning of "making finals" and tossed that out the window.

all corps have the same concern and it starts before a note is even played. Its show design. The arrangements, drill, work, and all those other little bits and pieces need to be figured out solidly and need to be amazing. The corps who are 11-14 generally have the right idea, but lack the execution. They're often still figuring things out come June. Which is not when you want to be figuring things out. Its already been stated earlier in this thread. Bill Cook knew the equation, the Blue Devils know the equation, the top 6 know the equation, and they spend a ton of money to make it happen. While I like the OCs shows, I don't think they hold much water when compared to those above them in regards to complexity, but they also aren't performed as well. Whereas I think Mandarin's perform the heck out of their shows, they just aren't designed that well. Academy was a perfect example last year of a corps that could have made that jump. They performed the heck out of that show. But seeing Mary Poppins end up in the same place at the end of nearly every song lost impact as you went. Don't forget that Crown was once under the YEA umbrella (with Crossmen, Cadets, and Sunrisers). All of those corps operated to support the corps at the top of the food chain. Hence why they all left eventually. While it may have helped them initially, i'm sure they'd not be where they are right now if they had continued to operate under that umbrella. (notice Cadets Winter Percussion was just put on hiatus, likely because it pulled resources from the flagship program)

Exactly Stu. There's a corps that operates a DCA corps under its umbrella that, when hearing how the membership talks at shows, makes me think they've been fed the idea that marching in one will get them into the other, though they don't see many move up that way. I could see Genesis, Music City, and Legends move up to World Class based on size, but I'm not sure complexity of performance would do much for them yet. It may be a detriment to them to move up in a year or two. I'd wait another five at least. It was tough to see Tarheel Sun move up and fall apart fast. Or Magic fold, then come back, then move up (all in one season), then fold again. its like hearing the Glassmen working out ways to come back. I'd hope that they take a page from the Blue Stars and build that organization up slowly and steadily, as opposed to moving up like a bottle rocket and blowing up faintly at the end.

I have a few colleagues who arrange for a few corps and a ton of bands. They've got it down to a muscle memory. One of them just puts on headphones, grabs a case of beer, and sits down at a piano to scribble out the basics. then goes to sibelius to figure out the scoring.

other than as a feeder, i'm almost certain WC doesn't see any value in OC.

Why would World Class want to bring up another corps or two that they have to pay more to at their shows? That's just silly. Currently OC gets nothing at their own shows.

My favorites... Bridgemen Cadets (maroon) Madison 90's era. (or this current one that's a throwback to it) Crown 90s with the purple jackets & white pants Anaheim Kingsmen Troopers (when they wore vests over white shirts) Caballeros silk shirt red sash. (yeah... dropped DCA in a DCI forum. boom)

While i understand some miss the classics, I enjoy the corps creating new "classics" more than i do hearing the same stuff over and over and over. I can only hear conquest so many times. heck, I can only hear Malaguena so many times... unless you're REALLY made it awesome. The music of Francis McBeth... just doesn't do it for me. I marched his music in 97 with Golden Lancers, and hearing it, it just doesn't hold a flame on the field to some of the newer works that modern composers are putting out. Medea... puts me to sleep. As many have stated, there's so many good shows that were made of this stuff, why not try to make something in your corps style, that's as good. I will put a nice plug in for Madison's show last year. When the director said they wanted to use music that would sound like Classic Madison, but has never been used by Madison before. That's the approach i think that's needed. Make new classics.

i hope they get a signed document.

Now that it's legal in drum corps. I have a trombone to sell to help pay for my wedding. King 5B SilverSonic. Serial 381xxx Huge sound, not the best looker, but the slide and valve work great. Pics are here. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i1uetong7jk9yyi/AACJBegYJ3dNgH1rfFtutwvda?dl=0 Asking $650 or Best Offer. CONUS only.

geezuz. stop blaming the publishers. years of "asking for forgiveness" helped put drum corps in this place. this isn't a drum corps specific problem. its music industry wide. the other problem is the lack of funding to do this. dwindling ticket sales, even lesser dvd sales, and an ever shrinking audience likely are all part of the problem.

It is possible due to the key of those bugles We would have to take arrangements and transpose them to see how the fingerings lined up, as well as the partials.