Marching While Playing

[FTNK]

Last year I made this thread in which I analyzed a lot of 2008 shows as well as historical shows to see how much actual simultaneous marching and playing each group did, based on the Fan Network videos. I have just finished doing the same for 7 of this year's World Class shows. I had hoped to do more by now, but I am getting ready to drive to Atlanta (from Pittsburgh) tomorrow. Also, I hope to update this information as the season progresses, since a lot of corps are in the process of debuting their final endings and last round of tweaks. Anyway, here it is. For the purpose of this, I define "marching and playing" as any time a majority of the hornline marching while playing, or a section is playing a soli on the move. I include the "pre-show" because, let's face it, the show designers intend for that to be part of the show whether it is technically judged or not. That is why several of the show times are far longer than 11:30.

Corps Total Time M&P Length of Show Percentage of Show

The Cadets 406 (6 min, 46 sec) 744 sec (12 min, 24 sec) 54.6%

Santa Clara Vanguard 336 (5 min, 36 sec) 738 sec (12 min, 18 sec) 45.5%

Carolina Crown 330 (5 min, 30 sec) 804 sec (13 min, 24 sec) 41.0%

Blue Devils 257 (4 min, 17 sec) 683 sec (11 min, 23 sec) 37.6%

Boston Crusaders 253 (4 min, 13 sec) 33.6%

The Cavaliers 247 (4 min, 7 sec) 661 (11 min, 1 sec) 37.4%

Phantom Regiment 218 (3 min, 38 sec) 686 (11 min, 26 sec) 31.8%

Doing this sort of analysis really gives one an insight into how different shows are constructed. For instance, SCV play a ton of long long long phrases: except for 1 instance, all their segments of marching and playing are over 15 seconds long (including the pre-show, which is a full minute of marching while piano playing with great control backfield). In contrast, Boston has a lot of short phrases and impacts; longest phrase is 25 seconds but there are a lot of 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, or 8 second brass segments (this is actually more typical of modern drum corps, which is what makes SCV stand out so much). Also, Cadets march and play A LOT. The "ballad" has over 1:40 of marching and playing, and most of it isn't at typical ballad tempo (at one point, it's double time so it is 196 bpm). Phantom stands out by not playing and marching a lot; many many times in their show, a section is playing a soli while standing still (usually staged in a pose or "jamming out") while the rest of the horns are marching around at carry. Anyway, I hope to keep doing stuff like this to the end of the season.

[DCImonkey]

Great stuff. How do you determine "playing"? What if the drumline is playing and moving but the horns are not? Curiousity you know...

Also, I think it would be great if you would time the actual amount of brass playing for each show. I'd love to have some evidence that shows how little Blue Devils actually play this year.

[dagenh]

I got 280 seconds for Cavaliers. That's 4 min. 40 sec. I swear this is accurate. Some places I never knew about before I calculated it, like I never noticed the low brass is playing at the very first downbeat of the show. Also, I included in the opener when the mellophones are in the snake moving and playing and the tubas are moving and playing as well but the trumpets and baritones are parked. That's half the hornline so I rounded up. Even when they pause for only a second I took it out.

Cavaliers Total 280 seconds 4 min. 40 sec. 42.3%

I'd also like to note it's the 2nd year in a row The Cavaliers play more on the move than the Phantom Regiment. As if it matters in the grand scheme of what is difficult.

Edited July 24, 2009 by dagenh

[2old4this]

Great work!

Very interesting stuff.

I think average BPM of the marching/playing would be a fun addition to your table (and very telling).

[whitedawn]

more interesting is time spent where (1) horns playing, (2) drums playing, (3) pit playing something other than accents, and (4) horns and drums marching.

that would be a cool barometer of ensemble demand.

[zig zig ZAG]

Very interesting stuff, and absolutely not surprising. This topic has been discussed recently on this forum regarding demand vs. execution, but sadly, we don't see evidence that many in the judging community really consider and reward demand. Because of that, many designers have understandably decided to aim lower, dumb down, challenge less.

Very disheartening. So it goes.

That kind of judging strategy reminds me of Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron. It rewards the average and handicaps true challenge.

Judges don't seem to consistently award 'demand points' as well as 'execution points' unlike, let's say, judges in olympic gymnastics or diving or figure skating, where particular moves are justly rewarded more because of high demand, even if execution isn't as perfect.

In my book, there's nothing more difficult or impressive that occurs on the field than a hornline running like mad, with precision, and playing most all the time, with precision.

It's clear which corps this year, and something many of us have noticed and noted on DCP since 2000, have had MUCH less demand. It's also clear which corps consistently pushes the envelope the most, often far and away ahead of everyone else.

On demand: To borrow from figure skating, we've got quad jumps judged against against triple jumps or double jumps. And we've got people on this forum arguing that the difference between a quad and double doesn't matter, it's which is cleaner. I find that viewpoint both blinkered and disingenuous.

Yes, 2old4this, average BPM is very telling too. I'd guess that you'd find similar 'rankings' if you factor in BPM too.

We'll see this year whether any demand-in-the-stratosphere shows are justly rewarded, or if the judges decide to gorge themselves on donut show design that is made to seem hard, but is a lot of sugar-coated amped-up empty calories.

Thanks very much for the analysis. Makes it easy to see behind the 'smart show design' Wizard of Oz curtain.

Edited July 24, 2009 by zig zig ZAG

[Plan9]

Great stuff. How do you determine "playing"? What if the drumline is playing and moving but the horns are not? Curiousity you know...

Also, I think it would be great if you would time the actual amount of brass playing for each show. I'd love to have some evidence that shows how little Blue Devils actually play this year.

Looks like they let DCImonkey out for his daily feeding. Evidence??? Is they some kind of kangaroo court we're not aware of? All this must just grind your gears! (but that's to be expected from a lower primate.)

Edited July 24, 2009 by Plan9

[zig zig ZAG]

Oh, and the most telling number is the total time marching and playing. That, more than %, is what wears chops, lungs, and legs down.

[DAvery]

Last year I made this thread in which I analyzed a lot of 2008 shows as well as historical shows to see how much actual simultaneous marching and playing each group did, based on the Fan Network videos. I have just finished doing the same for 7 of this year's World Class shows. I had hoped to do more by now, but I am getting ready to drive to Atlanta (from Pittsburgh) tomorrow. Also, I hope to update this information as the season progresses, since a lot of corps are in the process of debuting their final endings and last round of tweaks. Anyway, here it is. For the purpose of this, I define "marching and playing" as any time a majority of the hornline marching while playing, or a section is playing a soli on the move. I include the "pre-show" because, let's face it, the show designers intend for that to be part of the show whether it is technically judged or not. That is why several of the show times are far longer than 11:30.

Corps Total Time M&P Length of Show Percentage of Show

The Cadets 406 (6 min, 46 sec) 744 sec (12 min, 24 sec) 54.6%

Santa Clara Vanguard 336 (5 min, 36 sec) 738 sec (12 min, 18 sec) 45.5%

Carolina Crown 330 (5 min, 30 sec) 804 sec (13 min, 24 sec) 41.0%

Blue Devils 257 (4 min, 17 sec) 683 sec (11 min, 23 sec) 37.6%

Boston Crusaders 253 (4 min, 13 sec) 33.6%

The Cavaliers 247 (4 min, 7 sec) 661 (11 min, 1 sec) 37.4%

Phantom Regiment 218 (3 min, 38 sec) 686 (11 min, 26 sec) 31.8%

Doing this sort of analysis really gives one an insight into how different shows are constructed. For instance, SCV play a ton of long long long phrases: except for 1 instance, all their segments of marching and playing are over 15 seconds long (including the pre-show, which is a full minute of marching while piano playing with great control backfield). In contrast, Boston has a lot of short phrases and impacts; longest phrase is 25 seconds but there are a lot of 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, or 8 second brass segments (this is actually more typical of modern drum corps, which is what makes SCV stand out so much). Also, Cadets march and play A LOT. The "ballad" has over 1:40 of marching and playing, and most of it isn't at typical ballad tempo (at one point, it's double time so it is 196 bpm). Phantom stands out by not playing and marching a lot; many many times in their show, a section is playing a soli while standing still (usually staged in a pose or "jamming out") while the rest of the horns are marching around at carry. Anyway, I hope to keep doing stuff like this to the end of the season.

Planar Analysis? Stuart is that you?

[zig zig ZAG]

Looks like they let DCImonkey out for his daily feeding. Evidence??? Is they some kind of kangaroo court we're not aware of? All this must just grind your gears! (but that's to be expected from a lower primate.)

So, an ad hominem attack, Killer B? Expected. Just keep ignoring the facts and pretending that insults replace reasoning.

This isn't about homerism. It should be about judging criteria and the art form itself. We can talk about that fairly objectively, if we try.

If you can't, well...

Have a seat. Take a chair.