Amping the brass line

[Plan9]

no

the ambient amping effect i can handle. solos i'm not loving mic'd, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

deliberately amping the entire hornline might be, though.

Exactly!! Ambient only.....ever!

[perc2100]

I think the extent to which synths have taken over the sound of some shows would have been thought of the same way four years ago. Hell, the idea of miking brass soloists would have been laughed out of the forum, yet it happens with the top corps!

I'm not fearmongering, nor accusing anyone in DCI of wanting to go this route, but I'm not so sure it's against the current rules, and if you look back at the arguments for amping the pit (allowing them to play in a concert style with "appropriate" (ie indoor) mallets, not to wear themselves out, and to blend better with the brass), I don't see how those same arguments don't apply to the brass. Or maybe just a section. Got a weak contra line? Mike them, you know, for "balance".

1) I think anyone who thought a half decade ago that mic'ing the pit and/or adding electronics into show design was just wishfully thinking and/or naive about the current design trends of the activity (most prominently WGI).

2) with horn lines expanding over the years as corps size expanded from 128-132-150, plus the addition of amplification in the front ensemble, it's a natural progression to mic soloists in order to get the best balance AND in order to utilize creative staging.

3) the logistics of mic'ing an entire horn section for this activity are almost ludicrously complicated, let alone massively expensive (decent wireless mic's + a sound board that could accommodate dozens of wireless mic's + full front ensemble & electronics = well out of budget).

4) it doesn't take a sooth sayer to look at the rest of the marching arts activity to see that this doesn't happen. Mic'ing pits? Has been done in band/BOA/WGI for over a decade before DCI. Electronics? Has been done in band/BOA/WGI for multiple decades before DCI. Mic'ing soloists? Has been done for decades in band/BOA. Mic'ing each individual wind player of a marching ensemble? Has never been done on the scale of a World Class horn line before in any marching activity. Heck, it doesn't even happen when the LA Philharmonic performs in the cavernous Hollywood Bowl, though, FWIW, they DO have several ambiance mic's to ensure a well balanced sound for everyone in the huge amphitheater.

So really, when you think about this in the logical sense, you see where mic'ing each member of a horn line is pretty darned far-fetched. Perhaps trends will radically change in the future, but at this stage in the established and recorded history of the marching activity it is rather laughable, and the only reason to bring this garbage/nonsensical idea up is to try to (continually) spread fear & rile up the masses.

[skywhopper]

perc2100, thanks for pointing out the A&E trends in BOA leading up to adoption in DCI. It's a good point.

the only reason to bring this garbage/nonsensical idea up is to try to (continually) spread fear & rile up the masses.

That certainly wasn't my intent. If I'm coming across that way, I apologize. Thanks for participating in the discussion and enlightening me about a few things.

[Room_101]

Reminds me of the story (wish I could remember the details) about an English symphony orchestra conductor who said, "I never look at the brass. It only encourages them."

It was actually German composer/conductor Richard Strauss, talking about the trombone section specifically!

(But to be more on topic...Please, please don't.)

Edited July 2, 2011 by Room_101

[Cardman]

Alex, I'll take "It would cause me to stop going to shows" for 500, please. There is already WAY too much of this garbage in this activity. We need to get rid of all of it, including the pit. Those are my thoughts. Do I care if you disagree? No, but you can post a response if you feel like wasting your breath (fingers?)

[audiodb]

it doesn't take a sooth sayer to look at the rest of the marching arts activity to see that this doesn't happen. Mic'ing pits? Has been done in band/BOA/WGI for over a decade before DCI. Electronics? Has been done in band/BOA/WGI for multiple decades before DCI. Mic'ing soloists? Has been done for decades in band/BOA. Mic'ing each individual wind player of a marching ensemble? Has never been done on the scale of a World Class horn line before in any marching activity.

And you know this how? There are well over 4,000 competitive HS marching bands, not to mention a bunch more non-competitive HS and college bands. You haven't seen them all.

MikeD was just telling us about how his band mics nearly every individual. I realize they have fewer than the 100-110 musicians of a full WC corps....but still, they are miking a lot of people. How many other bands are doing similar things?

So really, when you think about this in the logical sense, you see where mic'ing each member of a horn line is pretty darned far-fetched. Perhaps trends will radically change in the future, but at this stage in the established and recorded history of the marching activity it is rather laughable, and the only reason to bring this garbage/nonsensical idea up is to try to (continually) spread fear & rile up the masses.

I heard the same thing about:

- "any-key" brass, and the concept of even the most financially well-off corps replacing their entire brassline with Bb/F horns.

- instead of just bringing rosewood marimbas out in the summer weather....bringing rosewood marimbas, pro-quality mics, PA speakers and a mixing board out in the summer weather.

- synthesizers in DCI contests.

- EWIs in DCI contests.

- (name any other electronic instrument) in DCI contests.

Now, of course, I'm not saying that I expect anyone really would mic every one of their 60-80 horn players if it were allowed. Not sure anyone is saying that. Then again, back in 1999, no one was saying that every single WC corps would switch to Bb/F brass, and I wouldn't even have offered such a loony thought to prop up an argument.

[Grumpy]

While we're at it, why don't we just mic the entire drumline, too...they shouldn't be left out just because they don't play horns...let's add the judges, too, then the audience could hear all the commentary...let's add a background running commentary by the show designers, so that the audience can be told how they are to interpret the show...

On second thought, let's just unplug the whole darned corps.

[emc2]

In some recent discussions about the use of A&E in DCI these days, I realized that we may not actually be so far from corps trying to amplify the brass line, either with individual mikes or through some set of ambient mikes to supplement and "enhance" the sound via the loudspeakers. And I was surprised that some folks not only were okay with the idea but embraced it as a net positive. So I'm curious what the board as a whole thinks.

don't they do some of this all ready. No problem doing amps, mic's, strobes, lasers , Globes / Projectors, ( special effects) you could also add surround sound. very cool. Have a great day.

[Grumpy]

1) I think anyone who thought a half decade ago that mic'ing the pit and/or adding electronics into show design was just wishfully thinking and/or naive about the current design trends of the activity (most prominently WGI).

2) with horn lines expanding over the years as corps size expanded from 128-132-150, plus the addition of amplification in the front ensemble, it's a natural progression to mic soloists in order to get the best balance AND in order to utilize creative staging.

3) the logistics of mic'ing an entire horn section for this activity are almost ludicrously complicated, let alone massively expensive (decent wireless mic's + a sound board that could accommodate dozens of wireless mic's + full front ensemble & electronics = well out of budget).

4) it doesn't take a sooth sayer to look at the rest of the marching arts activity to see that this doesn't happen. Mic'ing pits? Has been done in band/BOA/WGI for over a decade before DCI. Electronics? Has been done in band/BOA/WGI for multiple decades before DCI. Mic'ing soloists? Has been done for decades in band/BOA. Mic'ing each individual wind player of a marching ensemble? Has never been done on the scale of a World Class horn line before in any marching activity. Heck, it doesn't even happen when the LA Philharmonic performs in the cavernous Hollywood Bowl, though, FWIW, they DO have several ambiance mic's to ensure a well balanced sound for everyone in the huge amphitheater.

So really, when you think about this in the logical sense, you see where mic'ing each member of a horn line is pretty darned far-fetched. Perhaps trends will radically change in the future, but at this stage in the established and recorded history of the marching activity it is rather laughable, and the only reason to bring this garbage/nonsensical idea up is to try to (continually) spread fear & rile up the masses.

I really could care less whether or how long it's been done in WGI, BOA, band, etc.-this is DRUM & BUGLE CORPS. If I was that interested in what WGI, BOA and marching bands are doing, I would go to one of their shows. The lines have been blurred enough.

In reference to #3 above, just because it blows your budget to kingdom come to do something doesn't stop certain corps directors from proposing these ideas...even if your corps can't afford it, you have to do it anyway to "keep up with the Joneses" and then your either deeper in debt or you have to sacrifice something else, like put off replacing that 20 year old food truck or trying to get "another" year out of a bus that should have been put out to pasture three years ago.

[audiodb]

While we're at it, why don't we just mic the entire drumline, too...they shouldn't be left out just because they don't play horns...

No....first we need to amplify more brass, until you can't hear the drumline. Then we use that as the excuse to push for drumline amplification. First things first!