JulesBry Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Creativity has zero to do with the instrumentation. Really? Which is more creative, figuring out how to play Rhapsody in Blue without a piano or playing the original piano part (on a synth)? Which is more creative, trying to use several different percussion instruments to create the sound of a hurricane, or pushing a key on a synth to do the same thing? Which is more creative, playing Holst's First Suite as written, but on a football field, or transcribing it for brass instruments to play it (in non-idomatic ways)? Instrumentation is a major factor of creativity. (Slightly off topic, but I had to cringe when the Cadets used a synth to play sleighbells. Really? You couldn't bring along real sleighbells? You replaced one of the easiest, least expensive instruments with a synth?) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesBry Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 The amount of fans claiming they will leave, like in baseball/hockey/basketball disputes is always overstated. They always come back. Maybe, but when baseball went on strike in the 90s, I said I'd never watch it again. Guess what, I've never watched it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesBry Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Unless you are proposing increasing corps size to 200 or something, then no more money is going to flow into DCI. I've been thinking this since the beginning of the thread. If you allow woodwinds, but don't change the size of the corps or the number of corps, you don't involve MORE people. You just involve DIFFERENT people. That doesn't grow anything, but it changes everything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesBry Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Look the core principles are staying the same - young people, marching arts, some sort of summer tour, high level of performance, creative and effective show design...instrumentation is not a fundamental change to me, it's an obvious easy fix to expand membership base. You don't see instrumentation as a fundamental change, but I do. And there are nearly 40 years of DCI history (and in some cases 50 more years of pre-DCI history) on my side. At no point before the advent of a&e did any corps legally use any instruments other than brass and percussion. That's what made drum corps unique. We may argue over valves or no, bugles or no, keys, pit or marching timpani, but at the end of the day, it has always been brass and percussion in some form or another. Synths changed that. Woodwinds will change it further. You may like the sound of synths and woodwinds, and that's fine, but they aren't a part of drum corps. If they become a part of DCI, I'll be watching DCA shows or staying home watching Legacy videos. And I'll be very sad to no longer be able to enjoy the live, powerful sound and inspiring visual designs that drum corps used to provide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesBry Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Bagpipes? Why not? Strings? Why not? Trampolines? Why not? Because those are available in all kinds of places. Brass and percussion is not. In short, those things are not Drum Corps, and if they become a part of DCI, the world will lose a certain level of variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesBry Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 If you don't know anything about Kronos, you know absolutely nothing about string quartets... I mean zero, literally. They are pretty much THE string quartet on the planet. They sell out halls all over the earth and have sold millions of albums. And if all string quartets did exactly what the Kronos Quartet does/did, what would that do to the sustainability of the string quartet as an art form? My guess is that the same people who go to see the Kronos Quartet might see a couple more shows, but all the people who don't enjoy the Kronos Quartet, but do enjoy more traditional quartets will stay home. You wouldn't gain audience members, you would lose them. If you add woodwinds to drum corps, you'll keep the people who already like that instrumentation while losing those who prefer the current set up. You don't gain anything, but you lose a lot. Kronos did make a lot of people cringe at first... the purists... rigid thinkers... traditionalists... most of which are nearly extinct by now. But, not a big deal, as you can't grow an audience by catering to those who already have clearly defined parameters of personal preference. Growth can only happen by focusing on a younger audience that is still exploring and interested in discovery. Drum corps is already more than a half a century behind much of the rest of the music world, to say that it is somehow too progressive is absurd. Except that I know all kinds of performers--including vocalists, woodwind players, dancers, and thespians--who like brass and percussion on the field. They don't like woodwinds in marching bands. They don't like esoteric shows. They go to DCI because they want to hear ear-splitting brass and fiendishly difficult percussion performed while people run around a field making interesting pictures. Everything else either enhances or gets in the way of that core mission. Maybe everyone I know is part of the minority, but the odds are against that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesBry Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Why? The orchestra became static... too defined as something too specific. Creators migrated to forms much less specific that were less political in terms of getting their work performed. Actually, I think it has more to do with limited rehearsal time and audience wishes than it does with composers. I know plenty of composers who continue to write symphonies, but no one is willing to play them because they're too difficult to fit into limited rehearsal schedules (longer rehearsals require more money and longer hours, neither of which is available in most orchestras) and the music often isn't anything their patrons want to hear. When composers come up with pieces that sound really interesting and aren't overly difficult to play, they have much more likelihood of being performed. Every symphony I know premiers a new piece or two every season. Some premiere a new piece on every concert. Maybe the plethora of new music is also a contributing factor to the demise of innovation in the orchestra. In any case, DCI can learn from orchestras. Namely, if you ignore your audience's wishes, your money dries up, but if you never push ANY boundaries, you get stale and your audience gets bored. It's a balancing act. Currently, the pendulum has swung toward pushing too many boundaries (in my opinion), and WW would be the straw that breaks many audience members' backs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Because those are available in all kinds of places. Brass and percussion is not. In short, those things are not Drum Corps, and if they become a part of DCI, the world will lose a certain level of variety. George said it himself: "Just let me have 200!" He's not talking about replacing. He's talking about adding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyTenor Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) Having witnessed the birth and death of SBI (Summer Bands International), I can tell you it was a third tier group, competing at a level below the Class A corps of the same era. Small and without the presence of an all-brass wind ensemble. Attendance was poor as more people were watching the corps in the lot than in the stands. And, for the most part, the best kids migrated to the drum corps anyway. You also have to remember that the organization now known as BOA started as summer marching band, and quickly reinvented themselves as a fall event. I'll repeat the concept that some choose to be in an all-brass and percussion group. We all know that we can't go backward. How many rules have been rescinded? It will be another case of having to embrace the new to be seen as relevant. Once woodwinds are allowed, the activity is fundamentally changed. I've said it before. I like band. I like drum corps. But I like having a choice more. Adding woodwinds would eliminate one of those choices. I'll repeat another statement I made on RAMD over a decade ago. I went to the Fiesta Bowl band championship a couple of times. One year, Pflugerville (TX) was there. They had 50 flutes on the field. I know because I counted. I counted because I knew there were a lot, but I couldn't figure out why I COULDN'T HEAR THEM. This was a 300+ member band, so there were lots of clarinets and saxes, too. I only heard them when they were soloing on a mike. Woodwinds will not save drum corps. Good business practices will. I'll also repeat my Yamaha Theory. We changed the rules to allow any-key brass. Guess who wanted a bigger slice of the drum corps business? Guess who didn't have tooling for G brass? Guess who also sells amplifiers and electronic instruments? And,, finally, guess who sells woodwinds? Are Cadets a Yamaha corps? Well, there ya go. Garry in Vegas Edited June 30, 2012 by CrunchyTenor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) for all who hate Hopkins in the lime light 64 pages on a subject that has been beat to death sure is doing a good job at keeping him right up there....lol Edited June 30, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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