Jeff Ream Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Yes, but doesn't an outsider have to get his or her proposal past the BOD first before it is officially submitted and able to be officially voted on? If so, he's going to have a hard time convincing some of the current BOD members. nope. Now he may have a hard time convincing people anyways...but hell he tried 14 times on amps. And the current BOD/voting members may not always be the same folks. While we all realize woodwinds is going to be hard pressed to go through, just sitting here saying "it'll never happen" is what got us to our current plugged in out of balance state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barifonium Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I agree with Grandpa. If you take away one of the few distinctions we have left, we lose the symbiotic relationship between the experience and the instrumentation- we assimilate into the collective and we BOW to the pressure and public perception of "band." Thus we will end up trivializing our product since the image of marching ensembles seems to me at least very trivial in the eyes of the public. If they don't have the eyes or the ears for excellence in a Drum Corps with all brass, they won't have them for a revved-up marching band. The brass and drum sound though INCREASES the odds of noticing such excellence because of the very nature of its sound. Is band great? Yes. But realize this: it's one thing to be a part of something great, it's quite another to MAKE something great. In other words, it's one thing to assimilate into something great like the band world, but it's quite another to propel a unique art-form like Drum Corps to its fullest potential. We have by NO MEANS exhausted our methods of self-promotion OR design, but remember now, education here is a GIVEN. It's not the end, but the means to the end- the end being to sell T-shirts. It's one of the pillars of our survival. If the band world wants to promote itself and their brand of music education by rehearsing and performing the way we do, good on them. Help them any way you can and give them money, Hopkins! Instead of creating Cadets^2 perhaps you should have attempted to start a summer band that does exhibition shows. You could wrap it in Drum Corps packaging by talking about what you do and what you learn. It could be the founding member of a new circuit- while still riding the coat tails of the fame your organization has. We have Open Class, World Class and now we can have....wait for it... .... .... .... .... Band Class. Drum corps are bands. To the average person there is no difference between a drum corps performing and a marching band performing. It was that way 'then' and it is that way 'now'. ..and I acknowledged that. Adding woodwinds is irrelevant to bringing in new fans at best. The public may not know the difference NOW but the difference is important in that woodwinds, simply stated, do not have the same "COME SEE HOW GOOD I LOOK/SOUND" metaphorical (yet VERY tangible- [why we're fans]) calling that is the hallmark of Drum Corps. "COME SEE HOW GOOD I LOOK/SOUND" is the metaphorical keystone of our activity- IT is what motivates us to practice all day and night and thus make us different. Audience feedback once a show is performed helps stoke this desire. Can the same feelings that all brass produce lead to the same inspiration to practice, and can a crowd react to the same way to a Drum, Bugle and Woodiwind Corps as it does to Drum and Bugle Corps? Possibly. Let GH figure that out on his own. MAYBE the amount of fans that will leave will be smaller than the amount of people a section of woodwinds brings in. Maybe. He can try it... in his own division. It is not the 'band world' that wants to promote itself...the discussion here is that there is at least one person in DCI (we know who that is! ) who thinks WW should be part of DCI corps in some form or other! *promote the marching arts, excuse me. I invoke my privilege to hijack this thread and address you as if I was trying to convince you personally that what GH believes should not be the case except as a small quintet, duet, feature, etc. I'm not talking about him "giving up". I'm talking about the fact that he no longer has a place on the BOD. You kinda need that to propose "rules". Dude, the guy is GONE! He has nothing TO "give up" because he is no longer on the BOD. You seem to be missing my point here. When he proposed and passed electronics, he was on the BOD. Now he is not, so, how is he going to pass a rule through the DCI BOD when he no longer has any part of it? That gets back to how much influence he has on the board post-membership and the merry-go-round makes another revolution... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) well, not quite. DCI has done some outreach based off of stuff on here....after the first year at Lucas Oil and the uproar, and after the G7 stuff went viral...you have seen people in DCI do some things to try and "quell" the masses" Jeff DCP is hardly the masses..... but I also thing mass hysteria or the pitch fork and torch crowd do little to help the activity Also let me make it clear I am NOT by no means defending the old proposal not defending the man who graces the pages of this topic ( far from it ) I am NOT for WWs at all...to say it will never happen I do think is a little premature. As in everything its only going to take some staff to push a director to make almost anything happen. Its how it works, how its always worked. Kinda how the world works also. Young people will change, force change, be tomorrows leaders, as it should be. Theres tons of little HOPS out there ( unfortunately ) Hell theres a bunch on here also, just none with the influence to move things the way they would like. lastly , for those who think this person doesnt have influence within the activity is very wrong. he may not have a board seat etc etc BUT he has one of the most influential corps in the activity and that pulls alot in the big scheme of things, it is a respected corps and a very successful one and people listen and gravitate to it. There are many who strive to be it and although he may be one of the most disliked people in the activity for how he thinks the activity should move forward. Its still a powerful voice. Edited July 2, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Sorry, meant to click on positive but I neg voted this. So, it was YOU! S'Okay. Here's your chance to correct the error of you ways... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I'm not talking about him "giving up". I'm talking about the fact that he no longer has a place on the BOD. You kinda need that to propose "rules". Dude, the guy is GONE! He has nothing TO "give up" because he is no longer on the BOD. You seem to be missing my point here. When he proposed and passed electronics, he was on the BOD. Now he is not, so, how is he going to pass a rule through the DCI BOD when he no longer has any part of it? My opinion, and this is only my personal opinion, is that you're very much under-estimating the scope of GH's "power" to change the rules of the game. Not in any way that is obvious like attaining a majority of votes on the DCI BOD. One thing to witness about his tactics is that if one approach doesn't work, don't change the message, change the approach. You can turn the stripes on a zebra horizontal, but it's still a zebra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 My opinion, and this is only my personal opinion, is that you're very much under-estimating the scope of GH's "power" to change the rules of the game. Not in any way that is obvious like attaining a majority of votes on the DCI BOD. One thing to witness about his tactics is that if one approach doesn't work, don't change the message, change the approach. You can turn the stripes on a zebra horizontal, but it's still a zebra. totally agree........OMG lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 It's just as easy to get a rule passed now as when he was on the board. George has just as much ability to bully, cajole, browbeat, and wear down as he ever did. As Jeff has pointed out, he beat the A&E drum until his dream came true. It didn't save drum corps. Neither will woodwinds. But they all will drive away audience and raise costs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 It's just as easy to get a rule passed now as when he was on the board. George has just as much ability to bully, cajole, browbeat, and wear down as he ever did. As Jeff has pointed out, he beat the A&E drum until his dream came true. It didn't save drum corps. Neither will woodwinds. But they all will drive away audience and raise costs. You have a very low opinion of some very hard-working and independent people...the other directors. Just maybe they finally agreed with not only GH, but their own staffs that wanted A&E for a long time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72Bach Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) It's just as easy to get a rule passed now as when he was on the board. George has just as much ability to bully, cajole, browbeat, and wear down as he ever did. As Jeff has pointed out, he beat the A&E drum until his dream came true. It didn't save drum corps. Neither will woodwinds. But they all will drive away audience and raise costs. I don't ever remember there being a vote in DCI that was won by only George voting for it. I wonder why..... CAUSE OTHER DIRECTORS VOTED FOR IT TOO! Not just George Hopkins. There has to be a majority vote for it pass. Sheesh... Edited July 3, 2012 by 72Bach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PunkRawkBandGeek Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Neither will woodwinds. But they all will drive away audience and raise costs. This is making me think logistically, as I bring up something that has probably been mentioned before: they're going to need a heckuva lot of reeds. The wear and tear of an entire summer will do that, though there are probably companies chomping at the bit for that opportunity. I don't like it. And this is coming from a woodwind-to-brass-for-drum-corps convert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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