Does percussion affect Music Effect and Music Analysis scores?

[George Dixon]

Just curious, shouldn't Crowns weakness in percussion be affecting their ME and MA scores?

It seems obvious that guard performance affects visual effect and visual analysis, shouldn't it be the same for percussion in relation the music captions?

it SHOULD be...

[Stu]

...but for the life of me, how do you blow attacks in the parking lot, in August, playing 8's?

There is a video out there somewhere (cannot seem to find it) which shows the undefeated BD '94 line doing an awesome in the lot warm-up session yet blowing a few warm-up attacks. Johnson just just waves them off and the center snare taps off again; so I do not get your point.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Stu

[actucker]

again....a lot of it comes down to the background of who is judging MA.

I agree that could be an issue. But it would seem that its an easy issue to spot, and something DCI should be trying to fix.

[skywhopper]

Percussion judge is up close judging individual achievement. Music Analysis judge is judging balance, blend, arrangement, integration. I am not qualified to have an opinion on the Percussion judge's score, but as far as Music Analysis, Crown's percussion book is spectacular.

Also remember the pit is part of the equation. Not to mention, Crown has guard and brass members playing percussion at different points in the show. I assume the percussion judge judges the brass players' technique at the timpanis, and the guard member's technique on the bass drum.

[Tez]

Something no one is considering.......

What if Crown's weak percussion section is hurting their Music Analysis and Effect scores?

Maybe they would be 1 pointing everyone else in those captions if they had a drum line on the level of Cdets/SCV/BD.

[Kamarag]

Crown has guard and brass members playing percussion at different points in the show. I assume the percussion judge judges the brass players' technique at the timpanis, and the guard member's technique on the bass drum.

Yes, but that will have little negative impact unless the achievement level is just horrific. It's going to have some, though minimal, impact on the sheets as the percussion judge knows who's doing what. Crown's use of others on percussion also isn't a major element of the show, it's just some cool supplemental material. The judges know and understand this.

[skywhopper]

Something no one is considering.......

What if Crown's weak percussion section is hurting their Music Analysis and Effect scores?

Maybe they would be 1 pointing everyone else in those captions if they had a drum line on the level of Cdets/SCV/BD.

I was just about to add this. It's totally possible that Crown would be scoring better in MA and Music GE if not for their percussion issues. Certainly Joe Allison last night put Cadets up in Music GE. Maybe percussion played a role in his decision.

As for whether the MA judges are impressed too much with Crown's brass, they use percussion people on MA, too. My impression was about half and half, and yet Crown has rarely lost MA, IIRC. So it's not a fluke that brass judges are going easy on Crown's percussion or something.

Also, it's possible that Crown might be getting docked for percussion issues, but that other aspects of their music book are achieved much better than anyone else. Certainly in terms of balance and blend, their brass performance has the most clarity I've heard from any corps in years. Their articulation is unmatched and the balance between sections is amazing. In terms of balance between the field and the amps, too, I think Crown is far superior to Blue Devils and Cadets, their closest competitors on book alone. That overall ensemble sound is a big factor in Music Analysis, and Crown's synths rarely overpower the rest of the corps, whereas BD and Cadets both have sections where, if the judges are hearing half of what I heard (from the 50 yard line, halfway to the box) they should be getting hits on their balance.

[actucker]

I was just about to add this. It's totally possible that Crown would be scoring better in MA and Music GE if not for their percussion issues. Certainly Joe Allison last night put Cadets up in Music GE. Maybe percussion played a role in his decision.

As for whether the MA judges are impressed too much with Crown's brass, they use percussion people on MA, too. My impression was about half and half, and yet Crown has rarely lost MA, IIRC. So it's not a fluke that brass judges are going easy on Crown's percussion or something.

Also, it's possible that Crown might be getting docked for percussion issues, but that other aspects of their music book are achieved much better than anyone else. Certainly in terms of balance and blend, their brass performance has the most clarity I've heard from any corps in years. Their articulation is unmatched and the balance between sections is amazing. In terms of balance between the field and the amps, too, I think Crown is far superior to Blue Devils and Cadets, their closest competitors on book alone. That overall ensemble sound is a big factor in Music Analysis, and Crown's synths rarely overpower the rest of the corps, whereas BD and Cadets both have sections where, if the judges are hearing half of what I heard (from the 50 yard line, halfway to the box) they should be getting hits on their balance.

If their brass were so good that they could make up the difference, then they would be devastating everyone else in the brass sub caption, but they aren't. At the last TOC show, they were .2 up in brass, but a point down in percussion. Somehow, they're still .2 up in MA. The argument that MA is strictly big picture oriented doesn't make a lot of sense considering there is already a music effect caption. Execution has to be part of the score (and it is in fact half of the MA score). So if the problem is, we don't have MA judges that can hear the difference, then its a problem. If they are simply ignoring the difference, that's an even bigger problem. Either way, I don't see any way to justify such a huge discrepancy.

Again, I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to bag on Crown, or suggest that they aren't working hard or playing well. I enjoy the show, and we're splitting hairs here between fantastic sections and other, slightly more fantastic sections. I just see this as a clear discrepancy that needs to be addressed.

[Tez]

If their brass were so good that they could make up the difference, then they would be devastating everyone else in the brass sub caption, but they aren't. At the last TOC show, they were .2 up in brass, but a point down in percussion. Somehow, they're still .2 up in MA. The argument that MA is strictly big picture oriented doesn't make a lot of sense considering there is already a music effect caption. Execution has to be part of the score (and it is in fact half of the MA score). So if the problem is, we don't have MA judges that can hear the difference, then its a problem. If they are simply ignoring the difference, that's an even bigger problem. Either way, I don't see any way to justify such a huge discrepancy.

Again, I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to bag on Crown, or suggest that they aren't working hard or playing well. I enjoy the show, and we're splitting hairs here between fantastic sections and other, slightly more fantastic sections. I just see this as a clear discrepancy that needs to be addressed.

I think they would be killing everyone in brass if it were judged from the box and not the field. In fact, I am extremely confident in this assessment. Most of the things that are so impressive from Crown's brass are things you would not be able to pick up on from the field. The overall balance and blend when they are spread out nearly 100 yards... the timing of the articulations from one side of the field to the other. I just can't see how these things could be awarded from the field.

[Jeff Ream]

I agree that could be an issue. But it would seem that its an easy issue to spot, and something DCI should be trying to fix.

even in the band world, the folks doing the ensemble sheet are usually brass/wind folks. But the way the sheet is set up, the things they are looking at aren't what's killing Crown in percussion.

Here's a sample ensemble sheet verbiage, similar to the DCI sheet:

Composition:

* RANGE OF DESIGN VOCABULARY

* QUALITY OF ORCHESTRATION

* RANGE OF EXPRESSIVE COMPONENTS

* RANGE AND APPROPRIATENESS OF MUSICAL DEVICES

* RANGE OF MUSICAL CHALLENGES

Achievement

* CLARITY OF DESIGN VOCABULARY

CONSISTENCY OF ENSEMBLE SONORITY AND INTONATION

* CLARITY AND UNIFORMITY OF STYLE AND INTERPRETATION

* APPROPRIATENESS OF BALANCE AND BLEND

* PRECISION OF VERTICAL ALIGNMENT

* RANGE OF MUSICAL, PHYSICAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL CHALLENGES

So, a lot of Crown's issues, which are field level, do nto come into play upstairs. Remember, upstairs they are looking at the whole.

Now for the percussion sheet:

Content:

* DEPTH OF MUSICAL VOCABULARY

* DEPTH AND RANGE OF TECHNICAL AND MUSICAL SKILLS

* SIMULTANEOUS RESPONSIBILITIES

* RANGE OF MUSICAL, PHYSICAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL CHALLENGES

Achievement:

* CLARITY OF RHYTHMIC ARTICULATION

* EXPRESSIVENESS AND MUSICIANSHIP

* UNIFORMITY OF CHOSEN STYLE AND INTERPRETATION

* PRECISION OF CONTENT WITH RESPECT TO CHALLENGE

* BLEND AND BALANCE

These are the issues killing Crown.