SCV and BD in top 2...really?!!

[jsd]

18 minutes ago, Everyfan said:

Actually, if you want the top scores, they do. Do you have any idea how much time the Blue Devils put into movement other than straight marching. Go and watch a show warmup some time. Todd Ryan is a genius.

Yep. Todd Ryan reinvented marching technique at least three times in his life.

He is indeed the man.

 

[Everyfan]

7 minutes ago, Treefidy said:

Oh, we had to win Visual for me to comment on the issue...

I figured being top 3 less than 30 years ago might be more relevant to the conversation. Silly me...

You're the one who got snippy. "Try marching Pathways...blah, blah, blah."

[Treefidy]

19 minutes ago, pudding said:

BD and SCV are in first right now because they are the cleanest corps that also have strong GE (discounting who has the strongest GE). Crown is clean but has weak GE. Bloo is dirty but has high GE potential (GE isn't counted unless it's readable). That's what it boils down to. If Bloo cleans up fast, they might be able to challenge BD and SCV (they'll need a LOT of cleaning though, not sure if it's possible with the time left). I don't think Crown can challenge since they are already clean and it's too late to do huge show overhauls to improve GE. 

On another note, I did a playing-while-marching timing and analysis in the BD design thread, which I think would be more unbiased in this particular discussion. 

 

I think you need to listen to a stand still of SCV's show. You're missing a significant amount of playing while marching...

For the sake of this argument though, as someone who has marched and done more current body style movements, which was harder for you to do while playing?

Edited August 1, 2017 by Treefidy

[Everyfan]

I still don't see point in trying to tear down the achievements of others. Both of these corps are fantastic this year. After scores are announced, both will merge together to congratulate each other for a wonderful year of competition. Too bad some of the fans can't do the same, instead of always looking for an excuse why their team should win.

[pudding]

21 minutes ago, Treefidy said:

I think you need to listen to a stand still of SCV's show. You're missing a significant amount of playing while marching...

For the sake of this argument though, as someone who has marched and done more current body style movements, which was harder for you to do while playing?

It's pretty obvious to tell when the full ensemble is not playing, because their horns are down. I watched the show several times with the specific intent of timing the brass, I'm quite intimately familiar with it now. 

I'm not a brass player, I'm a percussionist. That said, I'm familiar with brass pedagogy from my music ed degree and my experience teaching low-level marching ensembles. Both traditional marching and body movement have their physical demands: traditional marching is more demanding in terms of lower core activation and separation of upper and lower body, while body movement can be more disjointed and difficult in terms of specific movements causing jerking in the upper body or face. They are difficult in different ways, much like breaststroke and backstroke are difficult in different ways but are both called swimming. 

Edited August 1, 2017 by pudding

[Everyfan]

8 minutes ago, pudding said:

It's pretty obvious to tell when the full ensemble is not playing, because their horns are down. I watched the show several times with the specific intent of timing the brass, I'm quite intimately familiar with it now. 

I'm not a brass player, I'm a percussionist. That said, I'm familiar with brass pedagogy from my music ed degree and my experience teaching low-level marching ensembles. Both traditional marching and body movement have their physical demands: traditional marching is more demanding in terms of lower core activation and separation of upper and lower body, while body movement can be more disjointed and difficult in terms of specific movements causing jerking in the upper body or face. They are difficult in different ways, much like breaststroke and backstroke are difficult in different ways but are both called swimming. 

That is probably one of the better explanations I have heard. Thanks. 

[LoveKathyG]

3 hours ago, Treefidy said:

Also, for numbers purposes and later debate...

BD Show Length: 11 minutes, 58 seconds
BD Marching without playing: 6 minutes, 22 seconds (53.2%)
BD Standing in place playing: 2 minutes, 51 seconds (23.82%)
BD Marching and playing: 2 minutes, 45 seconds (22.98%)

SCV Show Length: 12 minutes, 9 seconds
SCV Marching without playing: 5 minutes, 7 seconds (42.11%)
SCV Standing in place playing: 3 minutes, 12 seconds (26.34%)
SCV Marching and playing:  3 minutes, 50 seconds (31.55%)

Means nothing as long as judges say it means nothing.  

[BDCorno]

1 hour ago, pudding said:

BD and SCV are in first right now because they are the cleanest corps that also have strong GE (discounting who has the strongest GE). Crown is clean but has weak GE. Bloo is dirty but has high GE potential (GE isn't counted unless it's readable). That's what it boils down to. If Bloo cleans up fast, they might be able to challenge BD and SCV (they'll need a LOT of cleaning though, not sure if it's possible with the time left). I don't think Crown can challenge since they are already clean and it's too late to do huge show overhauls to improve GE. 

On another note, I did a playing-while-marching timing and analysis in the BD design thread, which I think would be more unbiased in this particular discussion. 

 

Nah, too big a hill to climb for Coats at this point as far as I can see. Hate to say it, but they're pretty well slotted at this point. Unison GE hits from both the horns and guard lack exposure, and that's hurting. Of course, adding the exposure might reveal the inconsistencies between performers, so it's a catch-22. Not sure how/why they are down to eight snares too, but seems their percussion scores have been flagging a bit since that happened. All that said, was happy to find that their show has finally hit its stride...really enjoy the music a lot, best hornline they've had IMHO, but the program and guard will keep them out of the top 2. Good chance of passing up Crown, though it won't be easy. It's a 1-2 battle and a 3-4 battle.

[BDCorno]

2 hours ago, pudding said:

BD and SCV are in first right now because they are the cleanest corps that also have strong GE (discounting who has the strongest GE). Crown is clean but has weak GE. Bloo is dirty but has high GE potential (GE isn't counted unless it's readable). That's what it boils down to. If Bloo cleans up fast, they might be able to challenge BD and SCV (they'll need a LOT of cleaning though, not sure if it's possible with the time left). I don't think Crown can challenge since they are already clean and it's too late to do huge show overhauls to improve GE. 

On another note, I did a playing-while-marching timing and analysis in the BD design thread, which I think would be more unbiased in this particular discussion. 

 

Thanks for linking back to your post...had seen it a while back and remembered it. Good analysis, and while I have a few divergent thoughts on a couple of things, I thought your analysis was very good, to the point, fair to all the groups surveyed, and mostly on target.

[N.E. Brigand]

1 hour ago, LoveKathyG said:

Means nothing as long as judges say it means nothing.  

Not quite true. It means the judges don't care. But that's not nothing.