gellio

I just saw scores from a show the other night - Madison was within 4 of Bluecoats for the first time. Hopefully, they are beginning to put all the pieces together. I talked to a few people who were at the Madison show and they said the hornline was incredible during the encore - which is standstill. Obviously, the demanding drill is effecting every box on the recap - not just the visual boxes, so it will be interesting to see what happens if they get their visual package cleaned up. If they do, scores across the board should surge upward, making for some interesting results. One of my friends, a drum corps alum, is convinced they will finish 4th (at lowest) at finals. That may be a bit of a stretch, and I don't see them, or anyone other than BD, Cavies, and Cadets finishing in the top 3. What I'm looking for here are comments specifically about the demand (musical and visual - including the color guard) of their show. I've read reviews, but I don't want to know how they are performing their show. I want to know about the demand and how difficult it really is. Thanks... I really hope they can pull it together, ala Star 1990/SCV 1997!

Your statement about Madison not playing while moving contridicts everything about 20 people have told me about their show. My sources tell me it's more demanding than Bluecoats and the hardest show Madison has ever done. My sources also say the hornline was incredible and smoked their standstill at the Madison show - playing a lot better in standstill. What does that tell you? It should tell you the demand of the drill is holding back their horn scores, and probably their percussion scores, and probably their GE scores. It should also tell you that if they are able to clean up their drill - their visual scores will go up, their brass scores will go up, their GE scores will go up, their percussion scores will go up, and their guard scores should go up. The closed the gap to less than 4 behind Bluecoats at the last show - things could be coming together for them.

I agree with the original poster...great post. I don't see anyone finish in the top 3 at this point other than BD, Cavies and Cadets. What bothers me is there is almost no movement in places anymore. In 1988 Bluecoats came out and beat Cavies, Phantom and Star at the first show - two days later, they were 5th. That would NEVER happen today, and it should. SCV trailed Phantom by basically under a point all season and didn't beat them until Quarters. That was so ridiculous. If two corps are that close, they should trade victories. If Bluecoats keep pace with the Cavies all season, they will remain 1-2 points down, which is absurd. If they are 1-2 points down, then there should come a time when Cavies have a down show and Bluecoats have a great show, and should win. But, it won't happen. I pretty much think the right corps place where they should most of time, but I'm a firm believer in slotting. It just seems like judges don't have the courage to put their own numbers up, regardless of what happened previously. I get confused, because I usually agree with almost all finals placements, but there is no flip-flopping of victories anymore. Correction on 2004 - SCV beat BD once in June, and Cadets were not in 2nd place coming into finals week.

It was a joke!

I never booed Star. It sucked losing to them in 1989 (how we beat them in Quarters I'll never know). 1990 made me a huge fan. That show was incredible. People suck, and I always thought the treatment Star received was atrocious. Their show's were as entertaining as anyones. I'm not a fan of 1993, but 1991 was a miracle, and the crowd should have went nuts for them.

Yeah they (Phantom) did, and I went NUTS at DCI Midwest when you guys topped them and Blue Devils! I knew that night that you had both corps beat for the rest of the season. I also remember a Jr. Scouts staff member I talked to at that show (he was on staff when I was there too). I think DCI Midwest was a week after DCM. I asked about the shows, and he said Star was the corps to watch out for and he thought only the Cavies had the goods to beat them at finals. He raved about Star. It was awesome. I had a burning hatred for Phantom for a long time, after going head to head against them and PRC. I always liked their shows, because I'm a huge classical fan, but I hated when then won! Fortunately, that's all gone now and I like everybody, and don't care who wins (as long as BD doesn't beat SCV :)

I'm sorry, I don't agree with your assessment of 1990 or 1991....The Cadets were clearly the best corps in 1990 and Star should have won by a larger margin in 1991 than they did. That was a perfect brass perfomance to an extremely difficult book. Your 1991 show was amazing though - so beautiful - it remains my favorite Cavies show. At the time, I wanted it to win - but now the Star 1991 is one of my favorite shows ever - just brilliant. I also disagree about 1992....you guys would have been in the hunt for the title if there was one more day, one more week, or one more month left. I can see why the Cadets passed up Phantom, BD, and Madison so late, but you, Star, and the Cadets were clearly all championship caliber that season - well the Cavies were since 1989, but still - 1992 was a great finish.

That statement was ridiculous. Star got plenty of applause at finals. Personally, I was hoping Star would have won! Everyone did seem to want them to lose, but they were tremendous. In my opinion, I would have been happy if any of the top 3 won. You can say what you want about Star's drill being sloppy in spots, but they blew the Cavies away brass wise, and so did the Cadets. The Cavies took it based on their brilliant visual product. Star was screwed fan wise because of the silly comments about their money and buying victories. Star of Indiana never took a placement they did not deserve. In fact, how they only won in 1991 so narrowly is a mystery to me. That performance should have won by a much much larger margin. I like 1992 Star much better than 1993 Star, and I disagree with all statements that praise 1993 Star. I think the entire production was a mistake. The show completely lacked any brass impacts. Yes, it was impressive in terms of exposure, but I didn't think the drill was demanding (as demanding as the three previous years) and it severely lacked GE. I thought it was scored much too closely to the Cadets.

I agree that 1990 was a great year, but I disagree with your statement about any of the top 6 winning. They all traded victories all year. Coming in to quarters, it was clearly a Cadets vs. Cavies battle. The battle for 3rd was between Star and BD, and Phantom and SCV were fighting for 5th. Star took 3rd and Phantom put on a great string at the end to climb out of 6th in Quaters to tie BD for 4th in finals. There was NO ONE anyone but Cavies or Cadets were going to win coming in, despite what happened only a week earlier. I think 1985 was the best year. Listen to Phantom - best 8th place show ever, and they deserved 8th. It only got better as you climbed up the standings.

Yeah, Whitewater was crazing in '88 1. Madison 2. Bluecoats 3. Cavies 4. Star 5. Phantom Two days later in Normal. 1. Madison 1. Phantom 3. Star (barely missed a 3 way tie for 1st) 4. Cavies 5. Bluecoats

Well, I think it's going to get 5th minimum...depending on whether or not they can beat Phantom. But, they can beat anybody with this show...of course assuming with regards to the Cavies and Cadets - but they could definitely beat BD with this show...but they probably won't - it's much more difficult than BD's.

I found the video too. Believe me - it doesn't do the show justice. I also think this is their best show since 2000 (and that's one of my favorite shows ever) - so that's saying a lot. They definitely have a product that can beat anybody - but it all hinges on how well they can clean this puppy up - it's fast and loud, just the way I like it - notes flying all over the place, and bodies following them.

I agree. It's not like the Bluecoats percussion line is blowing everyone away, so it's not like they're giving a clinic. I think the Cavies are going to increase the spread starting tonight. None of the other midwestern corps have beaten the Cavaliers since early 1998 when Glassmen did it. Bluecoats haven't beaten the Cavies since very early 1988, and Madison and Phantom haven't since 1997 finals. That will change one day, but I don't think it's going to be this year.

You're comparing Madison to Cavaliers. Madison was coming into the 2002 season after finishing 11th place. Cavies are coming into this season off of a 2nd place finish.

A late one. 1. Cavaliers - 81.6 2. Bluecoats - 78.5 3. Madison - 75.0 4. Colts - 71.3 5. Blue Stars - 69.7 6. Cap Regiment - 67.5 7. Pioneer - 59.2

Hahaha...I thought you were talking about the Scouts' ADP and I was like, "Oh my God, that was way harsh!" hehehe.

Wow, we have a difference in opinion. I feel they were too slow to re-act to the tremendous visual woes of the 2000 season. Look at the opening set in finals - there's a guard member over 5 years out of the form - on the opening set. That is just unacceptable. If the alarms didn't go off after 2000, they should have knocked people over with their force after 2001. Everyone was shocked when Crown beat them at finals in 2001. I wasn't. Sure Madison blew them away brass wise (IMO) but Crown more than blew Madison away visual - and their design was exceptionally better - musically and visually. Visual design and performance problems were not "lesser problems" from 2000 to 2002 - they were severe, enormous, huge! They couldn't have been much bigger, especially for a corps who had a great visual design in 1999. In 2000 the design was good, the execution woes kept them down. 2001 and 2002, it was both! No only was the design behind everyone else in the top 12 (at least in 2001), the execution was very poor. I think the musical design of 2001 was great, but was a blast from the past. 2002 - not good! 2000 - awesome! 2000 was interesting and something new, which I admired and appreciated. I didn't care for 2001 or 2002. I sat their at finals in 2001 just stunned. Stunned in disbelief at what I saw and the placemnt received. (I didn't see 2000 live or the DVD until after 2002). I applaud and support the changes that have happened in 2003 going forward - all of it (with the exception of this year's guard uniforms - CHANGE THEM). They are beginning to have the design, experience, and talent needed to compete at the top levels in this activity - which is where I want them to be. I thought last year's show was extremely entertaining, and I'm excited to hear the 2006 edition. I appluad them for attempting a very demanding show this year, regardless of placement. I think that's key to getting back in the top. The Cadets, BD, and Cavies win because they have the design, the difficulty, the experience, and the talent. Scouts are on their way back IMO.

What do you base that on? Sometimes I wonder if people put any thought into what they write on here.

01> Cavaliers 02> Blue Devils 03> Cadets 04> Santa Clara Vanguard 05> Phantom Regiment 06> Bluecoats 07> Madison Scouts 08> Spirit from JSU 09> Boston Crusaders 10> Carolina Crown 11> Colts 12> Blue Knights

Fun! Santa Clara - 1986 and 1998 (my favorite show ever!) Madison - 1984 (best finale ever) and 1995 Phantom - 1985 (the best show they've ever done) and 1987 Blue Devils - 1986 and 1999 Cadets - 1985 and 1996 (my favorite Cadets show ever) Cavaliers - 1986 and 1991 Bluecoats - 2001 and 2004 Spirit - 1985 and 1986 Suncoast - 1986 (don't have 2) Star - 1990 and 1991 (along with SCV '98, this completes my ultimate top 3) Crossmen - 1992 and 1997 Blue Knights - 1992 and 2004 Glassmen - 1991 and 2001 (my favorite show of 2001) That's all for now.

once again - you need to learn to read and get over yourself. that reviewer NEVER said anything about bluecoats ripping off madison. he said he didn't understand why they would play the same song madison played, which would make that song be played three years in a row by two different corps. he was mistaken and he acknowledged the mistake. he also never said the only reason bluecoats were doing well was because they had an easy show. he said the drill wasn't very demanding, and he's not the only one who's said that. learn to comprehend what you are reading.

Yes, and all by a tenth of a point - at finals.

Wow, great score and placement for the Bluecoats. Based on spreads (vs. the Cadets) it looks like they have pulled away from Phantom. Very interesting. That's exciting. Spirit? Um.....looks like the folks in Madison better start getting very worried, very quickly. The spread between them and the Bluecoats is the same between Madison and Bloo. I know - different shows, different scores, but I'm talking spreads.

Yes, this is getting ########. Anyone who thinks I'm so pro-Madison and anti-Bloo can go to soundmachine.org and read my review of 2001 finals - one where I raved about the Bluecoats (and thought they should have placed higher) and where I was trying very hard to be as nice as I could about Madison's performance.

Sorry, you cannot really compare the Cavaliers to anyone. They are clean because of talent, preparation, and staff. No one, with the exception of Blue Devils and Cadets, are capable of doing even remotely close to the what the Cavaliers do. You need to learn to read - the review was very objective, and of course, it's the Bloo-backers that are jumping all over the guys case. Why? If he were a bloo backer and raved about the Bluecoats you'd all be praising him for his great review. Not everyone is going to like the Bluecoats - I sure know you all make it hard for me to like them, but I do - I push you all out of my mind when I watch them and enjoy the great product they put out. I have heard from MANY MANY people that the Bluecoats drill is MUCH easier than Phantom's and Cavies - most people I know have only seen those two and Bluecoats. Again, I heard it, but these are reliable sources. If they are clean now and losing to Cavies - it ain't going to be pretty by season's end!