brown55061

The perfect score not existing is true... but at the same time, if someone scores a perfect in any caption it means it was literally perfect. As in, nothing left on the field and no mistakes at all. I don't think anyone could say a corps from the 70s-90s has performed at as high of a level as what we saw out of the top 5 this year. They are all playing more difficult and technical music, harder drills, more physically demanding etc etc. So I do think the BD score is that much better than the 99.15 of the past, or any 97-99 score from past decades. They really are that much better nowadays.

Watching the retreat live you could tell Steve and Dennis thought the Bluecoats were on fire tonight. I think the crowd reaction just shows the kids (err young adults) pulled the emotion out and brought the hammer tonight. A half point jump on finals night... now THAT is hot! Congrats guys, probably one of the coolest shows done and crowd favorite for future generations to remember. Just a shame BD was nearly perfect this year or things could have been different!

Last time I went to finals it was $55 to sit on the 40 yard line. For $75 Dan Acheson should be hand delivering pop corn and coke! Thanks for the quick replies folks, sadly I just can't afford that. I could probably scalp a ticket for less than that and drive out there lol

I thought I got an email from DCI last week that mentioned something about finals being streamed live for a price. But now I'm thinking I was confusing that with something else cause I see nothing on their website about it. I never did the whole fan network deal because I'm just too busy to take advantage of it. But if you could watch finals I'd totally pay. I know about the live & loud semis at the movies but I thought this said finals. Anyway just fishing to see if this is legit or in my imagination. Thanks in advance.

victorcoly gets it. This whole movement to WGI on the field is bad for DCI. The battery features are very much indoor drill and sound design w/ the electronics, and I get that because movement and velocity is more demanding. But when the actual music becomes synthetic and sounds like a WGI show I'm turned off. The judging is going to go more and more that direction, sadly. I haven't went to a show in about 5 years because I just don't get the goosebumps anymore. As for the coats use of the synth this year, I think it's almost great. In the closer they should turn the keyboard volume down a bit so it's not blatantly obvious when the bend takes place. And that last loud chord, man is the keyboard loud! They should use it to flavor the music, not overpower the horns. It all may sound different in the dome so I'll reserve judgement until Finals. I do enjoy what they did with the closer though, especially that last pitch bend up on the keyboard for the 3 bar power chord. So much more satisfying than the drum feature and tilty triangles. I still think they need to do a tiny pitch bend with the horns... maybe after the long hold fizzle out the horns and tilt the horns posture further?? If your entire masterpiece rests on a single theme like tilting, every movement needs to reflect that. Regardless I'm glad their show is being rewarded by the judges. And that drumline!!

Charlie123 has an excellent point about home shows for corps getting a boost in the new caption. At least at Indy it's neutral ground, aside from the big 5 or 6 corps with a bigger fan base. I don't think anyone can argue the Devils have a big fan base but there was very little aplause after their show most of the year. So we can't just say popular corps automatically get a crowd reaction. I've tried to bring new people to DCI shows and the majority aren't very impressed, not like they were in the 90's. I haven't jumped out of my seat for good reason in years. Even my musician friends walk away saying "ehh it was okay". I got involved in this activity because of the things I saw and heard on the field. Corps today say they are there for entertainment but it's about #5 on their list. Their goal has to revolve around making top 12 status, to retain DCI sponsorship and get new recruits with more talents to improve their scores each year. I felt bad for taking people to live performances because the shows felt totally disconnected from the thousands sitting in the stands. I found myself yawning during the devil's show. Were they insanely clean and talented? Sure! But it bored my friends. Corps today seem like they only want to ram 1000 notes down your throat with no melody or meaning to the repertoire of the program. Maybe this new rule isn't a perfect answer but something needs to change or the activity is going to lose interest. Most of the guys I kept in contact with from my era stopped following DCI in the last decade. Even if this entire caption is 1 point out of 100, it may make corps at least TRY to connect to the audience. I just hope it doesn't turn into a soap opera on the field lol.

I don't have a big enough pair to do a tat. Sure the fleur de lis logo looks good when you're 21, but when you are 60 it will look like a dead pine tree with liver spots. Bleeehh And that cool looking Cavalier guy.... well he may end up looking like a saggy cavalierette after a few years. That's no way to respect to a mighty Cavalier.

Firstly, I never said DCI's primary goal was entertainment. But they wont sell any tickets if there was none! Many div1 corps directors have continually made crowd pleasing their first goals. I stated I knew GE was not "entertainment", but I feel it SHOULD be a part the 100 points somewhere. A shows "effectiveness" is just as emotional of a call. In most cases a field judge would disagree with a box judge because of what is lost from field to the pressbox. I didn't mean to hyjack this thread, so I'm done. Carry on arguing about why the Coats can't win.

And that's why I disagree with their judging methods. DCI has a major disconnect to its fans and does not explain scoring well at all. DCI's purpose is to give the kids the experience of a lifetime and entertain thousands of fans, which keeps DCI in business. My point about GE is simple, the scoreboard never factors in the personal connection and theme like a Crown 07 show that overflows with GE. The coats have a much more solid connection to fans than BD does this year. Do a simple poll of vets of DCI and you find this is obvious, yet BD's GE will win undoubtably. GE should not just be about how well the music and visual packages fit together. A lot of fans are disconnected because scoring doesn't factor in the theme's impact, it's ZERO out of 100. I know most disagree but this is why I generally don't like BD. Their performances are top notch yet their show almost lulls me to sleep. Maybe my reflection is just boring.

I bleed Canton blue but it's not happening. For whatever reason, the judges actually enjoy the BD program full of blaring horns and zero character. I believe performance wise the Devils are nearly flawless. No doubt, their weakest player in each section is stronger than the weakest in other corps. I will likely forget about BD's program August 16th. The bluecoats show, on the other hand, I walk away humming the tunes in my head because they are so recognizable and fun. Is that not what general effect really is? Lots of contrast in the top 4 this year in every caption. That's what will shake up the judges this weekend. My prognostication says BD will win with a 98.95 and I believe it will be a near tie between Cavies and Coats on Saturday at 97.25. I have a sneaking suspicion that Cavies will edge them out for 2nd at some point this week. In the performance captions Cavies really should not touch the Coats because their horns and perc just aren't as good. But judges like to see things different! I congradulate the Bluecoats for their highest scores ever, and more to come. I hope they pull off a whopper on Saturday just to create havoc on the forums and screw up everyone's perfect world. Wish I could be there to see it first hand.

I haven't seen both together since July 9th in Akron. Based on that... Bluecoats have a more fun program to watch. They are squeeeeky clean already aside from the gaurd and transition drills. I think they have the best overall enseble and play so great as a group. They have a lot of tough timing sections in the show and they play great together front to back. Most corps are still rough with this at finals but the coats are solid, yet those caption scores never reflect that. But I'm not wearing a green polo so what do I know! You can't help but love it when Crown's brass bludgeons your ears to the point of blood. But they just don't seem as clean this year. The music is probably tougher in areas. But I'm with SFZFAN, the odd body girations don't do it for me either. Star used to drive my nutty for this reason but at least their movement tied into the program. Crown seems to do it just to make you go HMMMmmm. Everyone has different styles, so that's probably good. It's just not what I prefer to see. I go to be entertained and the dance is not what makes me pay to watch a show. I love both but I personally feel the bluecoats will get 4th, and Crown in 5th, behind the Cadets. But who knows, it's early!

I have to admit the 2007 show popped into my mind Friday when I saw them in Akron, edging out Crown. But they gave it right back to Crown Saturday so numbers are meaningless right now. Remember, judges are from all different walks of life, ESPECIALLY visual and ensemble judges which is a huge portion of the score. We'll likely see scores jump up and down at different shows in July. This is why I could care less at this point. I don't pay any attention to overall scores until Allentown because that's when most corps begin to peak for Finals. So until then we can run statistic scenarios all day long but none of it matters. Every year staff and kids change, chemistry is different etc. So let's just hope for DCI's sake (and Ohio) that the Canton crew can pull out the stops and surprise some people in Indy! This is one of their best programs to date and has massive potential so I'm going to hope they break the top3 just so Ohio has ONE FRIGGIN THING TO APPLAUD ABOUT!!

Did they have a lot of age outs, or was the recruiting not there? Just curious!

I think you all are missing a bigger picture here. Even if their visual scores were up, they would not have been a top 3 corps. I'm sure a lot of the vets returned for 09 considering they won. And when you win you usually get a better class of recruits trying to audition for remaining spots. I disagree with the percussion score entirely, they were just as clean as the top 3 that had fuzz through several sections of their shows so I guess I missed something from the stands. But the brass sounded up to par and the gaurd was not terrible. Visual design alone was not the entire achilles heel of this corps. Overall the scores were down even in some performance captions. So if their visual design was flawless they would barely be in the top 4. Just pointing this out! Phantom will be a favorite to me if they are 12th or 1st.

2001 or 2008. I know last year they had a blow out at the end of the ballad but the whole thing was arranged well.

I agree with the original point here that a show with no true theme can never win DCI today. I had not seen Phantom until last night and I was blown away with their horn calrity in the dome, where most top 6 corps suffered hugely. The battery was not as clean as 07-08 but they were definitely top 4 from the little I heard/saw. The visual drill and guard had a lot of slop in transitions. A lot of timing problems but were barely noticable unless you were looking for it. But the overal package I thought was excellently done. But since when has DCI been about scores? That's my question for you. I have always said screw the guys in green shirts. Crowd response is what determines who wins on a given night in the hearts of the kids out on the field. Look at 79 when the scouts boycotted the scores at finals and blasted the crowd lol. When you starting playing the scoring game you see sore losers and attutides develop. But it sounds like someone is questioning why the Cavies were above 95 points, in which case I agree. They don't even pull off their rep solidly yet their GE is high. But that's the Cavies almsot every year, they have superior design with a clean ensemble and visual package regardless of actual musical talent. Judges have gotten too artistic and deep. PR in 97 was just as good of a corps as 96 but they finished 4th. I liked it when corps were rewarded for talent and not drama. But this argument was more valid last year. More top 12 corps are basing the show on the musical selection itself versus previous years. But all this bickering is what makes going to watch fun. So I encourage the arguments lol. Carry on folks!

While I usually agree with this type of thread, I will defend DCI instead this time. The midwest is a good area for DCI because of its accessibility. Indy is growing unlike most other cities right now and in general the midwest is hurting so more people can drive to the show. I am being selfish being from Ohio but we are being hit harder than most places. I think the Lucas shanty will be a good place for finals but ONLY if they find a way to get that roof retracted for finals week. The dome has a retractable roof, but its sucky the drainage is a problem for finals. I would assume otherwise the roof would be open. I never liked playing a dome, never will being a drummer. You get so much reverb that timing can be an issue. I saw TONS of timing issues between battery, brass and pit last night in the theater. It will probably take 2 performances to get everyone adjusted to the stadium acoustics. I thought the sound quality in the theater for the top 8 was very good. Loved the Colts and Troopers but could barely hear subtle parts. Mostly due to acoustic issues Im sure or from DCI's mics not picking up some frequencies. Once we got to Boston everything was clearer and I think they turned up the master volume on the mics, or the theater did. DCI would not be wrong if they say attendence is down do to economy. In many areas unemployment by REAL numbers is 20%. 1 in 5 people are sitting at home living off the system because their job is never coming back. Ticket sales are hurting DCI period. They sent me 2 postcards for finals tickets last month. They never used to send ANY. Attendence was still down for quarters, which is still $30/ticket on average. If they get 7,500 less people than last year for one show, they still lose. Finals will be more sold out obviously, I think less folks went for the bundle this year due to funds. Indy is not cheap to stay at either. Most hotels are $150-200 a night for a closet sized room. Bottom line, the economy has already made a difference and next year it will hurt them worse yet. Let's just hope for all our sakes the ticket sales are good for finals so we can continue watching drum corps in the future!

I know we all cant help but to speculate. Honestly though, we will all know how CC and BD stack up in a few days so everyone just chill! Sorry, BD will not lose. They had one of the largest margins of victory all season long. They start months before most top 6 corps have filled their rosters, they should be better and should win for that reason alone. I know how bad the loss last year had to sting letting Phantom squirm by at the last second. You know they are determined to not let that happen again, I think they will. Rightfully so, its a great show with loads of talent behind it. I just hope some drama unfolds this week. It will be hard to live up to last years champs, the whole top 15 were epic performances.

I agree that the rep confuses me a bit. I like the show but this is not their best GE show. But then again many would agree 07 was the best 6th place corps ever with a great total package. The shows that win usually have what I feel is a pathetic GE program yet the judge tries to fantasize and find a deeper meaning to match the performance scores. But whatever, guess thats why I dont strut around the field in a green polo. I think judging is sad this year. Crown comes out hot and posts an 85+ and then for a whole week they lower the scores down. The judging community is just keeping the scores lower until later in the season. I say give every caption the score it deserves that night and whatever the total score is, so be it!

Now that made me laugh!!! Do the corps lagging behind just need a bailout too?

Colors of uniforms, number of guard members versus uniforms on the field, etc. Phantom always looks really big because the roman style helmets, and solid colored uniforms...just for example. Good point though, I have noticed how some look like they have 50 more people and they the same size as the corps next to them.

Hey its nice and warm under my rock, dont knock if you ain't tried it! I disagree a bit about the Criminal show though. I think there was plenty of difficulty aside from the guard. About a week before finals the coats beat BD and Cavies in a show so I don't think everyone else magically improved in a handful of practices. Judging is just crazy and subjective at times. I think the fans would love to see someone new win other than BD or Cavies. Crown COULD do it potentially but this is new territory for them which makes it even harder on the kids. It will be seriously tough to top the other corps in the top 7 with their programs me thinks. I like Crowns show alright but I dont see a "championship" caliber rep. Then again look at all the other programs that weren't incredible that have won. I know nothing...

Holy crap! Crown scored 83.0 at Rome, NY. If the Cadets weren't there and scored an 81.7 I wouldn't think much of it. I think it's time to consider some big upsets at the top this year. I realize its still just July but scoring doesnt change THAT much. I think Crown can pretty much solidify a top 3 position so long as they don't get an ego in July. Until the bigger events take place this month we wont really know how they stack up against eachother but I think the top 7 is going to be hugely competetive come August. I'm torn because I want SCV to break top 3, but I also want to see holy name, the bluecoats and Phantom do well. August is gonna be exciting, hang on to your nipples everyone!!!

I wondered the same thing. There havent been any major shows yet so they haven't all competed against eachother. I'm going to guess that's why there have been no attempts at "ranking" yet. Then again none of it matters this early in the season. Everything will change by August.

Yea, why not yell Crossmen drumline moments before the last note is played that has NOTHING to do with drumlines lol. Clearly someone who just wanted to be known as the homer that yelled on the recording.