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In a perfect world that should be enough time. But storms can sometimes pop up almost out of nowhere on a humid summer day. Here's one example I mentioned in an earlier thread about LOS: There was a storm here in Wisconsin last summer that went from nothing on the radar to there being a tornado on the ground in less than 15 minutes. Not to mention, it happened on a day when there were no other storms in Wisconsin at the time. Because the storm formed so fast, the National Weather Service didn't initially believe the radar. It wasn't until a nearby airport tower and landing airplane reported a tornado on the ground that they actually issued a warning. Now hopefully there aren't any tornadoes in Indy this summer, but it serves the point that even if you have a live radar in front of you, things can sometimes pop up. I'm pretty sure that the staff at LOS don't even want to take that chance.

Definitely not true. While radar is definitely much improved now days, it's definitely possible for a storm to pop up with little advance notice or warning. Earlier this year we had a storm pop up here in Wisconsin that produced a tornado less than 15 minutes after it first appeared on National Weather Service radar. You would literally have to have someone watching a live radar feed non-stop to try and react fast enough to one of these mid-summer storms that pop up out of nowhere. 12 minutes may not be enough time to get the roof closed before the rain would hit.

I wasn't able to make it to camp, but from what I've been told it was the best attended camp since the winter camps of 1997. If you recall, that was the year the Pioneer marched between 60 & 66 horns (# fluctuated during the season due to injuries). Definitely a positive sign for things to come!

I wouldn't go quite as far as to say that it's terrible advice. Perhaps charging the entire cost of the summer would be a bad idea, but I can't see the harm in charging a portion of dues/tuition if you can't cover it any other way. (I'll get to my justification in a minute) I've become growingly frustrated with the number of people, who using a variety of electronic means, will beg for money from every last person that they can find so they can march drum corps. But when you actually dig into their story, they don't even have a job and aren't doing anything to try and make money except sitting back and sending out blast emails! With that in mind, my first recommendation is to get a job if you don't already have one. When looking for a job, be up front with the employers about your plans to march drum corps. As a hiring manager responsible for hiring 20-30 high school & college age employees every year, I look for applicants who are involved in extra curricular activities. Simply said, they're generally better employees than the kid who sits at home all day playing video games. I'm more than willing to schedule around their activities IF they're up front about them right from day I interview them. Explain to possible employers that you will need one weekend per month off, and that you will be unable to work from Memorial Day through mid-August. But then make it clear that you're more than willing to make up for the time off by working extra days when you are available, by picking up undesirable shifts/hours, and by coming in when other employees call in sick. If you work with them and turn out to be a good employee, you'd be surprised how willing they may be to work with you. Second, any money you do earn needs to be budgeted and accounted for. Working 25 hours per week at a minimum wage job isn't going to earn you a ton of money, but it should be enough to cover to cost of drum corps with a good bit to spare for other life expenses. But you have to budget and plan! Determine how much you need to save per paycheck to reach your goal, and then put it into a different account. If your employer has direct deposit, they may even be able to do this for you so you don't even have the opportunity to see the money! In addition, put any money that you receive for your birthday or the holidays into this account. Lastly, while I wouldn't recommend charging the entire dues/tuition amount to a credit card, I would recommend at least having a credit card and using it. When I aged out in 2000, I was debt free. I always paid everything by cash or check right up front. As a result, I didn't have any credit history. When I went to buy a car a couple months later, I couldn't do it because I had insufficient credit history. A couple years later I went to buy a house and even had troubles with that because of an insufficient credit history. The banks and mortgage brokers all told me that I should have gotten a credit card when I was 18 or 19 to establish a credit history. Without it, I had to have my dad cosign on almost everything for a couple years! So in that respect, having a credit card can be beneficial. And to a certain extent, you have to have a balance on your card so that you can make a payment in order to establish good credit. Simply having a card that you never use won't cut it. So if you happen to establish that balance by paying a portion of your tuition, so be it. Schedule regular payments to be made while you are on tour and you will actually be helping your credit! But I definitely wouldn't recommend using a credit card as your sole means for paying for your summer! Carrying a high balance on credit cards is generally what gets folks into trouble.

This type of thing can happen to any corps, and any website for that matter. The content management system that they're using is entire database driven. For whatever reason, the database occasionally can get scrambled. Sometimes it's for no apparent reason. Other times it's a result of trying to add a new component or feature to the website. The key is to be prepared for the worst and have back ups in place, both online and off site, that you can restore from in the event of a problem. Without a current back up, it's very probable that they'll have to reconstruct the database or completely rebuild it from scratch... Either of those options can take an enormous amount of time. In any event, if something of this nature was going to happen, now's not the worst time for it to happen. While they're probably missing out on some recruiting opportunities, anyone who's genuinely interested in marching with the Glassmen will probably check back later. It's not like the website is completely gone. Most people will read the message and understand that the difficulties are only temporary.

Opening the roof requires virtually no energy, and actually generates power which can be used to then close the roof: Each of the two roof panels has two cable drums over the two outboard rails and has four cable drums over the three inboard rails, for a total of 16 cable drums per roof panel. Each cable drum is driven by four 7.5-horsepower motors for a total of 64 motors per roof panel. The motors are controlled by sophisticated variable frequency drives that work together and ensure that all cable drums maintain the correct cable tension to share the roof loads equally. As the retractable roof panels roll downhill to the open position, the electric motors must restrain rather than drive the load, and in the process act as generators in order to keep it from running away. Each VFD is equipped with an integrated regenerative drive that turns the generated power back into regular 60Hz current and feed it back into the power grid. This system keeps the roof panels under control as they roll downhill to the open position, and provides a little extra energy, which can be used to drive the motors back uphill. However, I would agree that the cost of cooling the stadium after having the roof open would carry a hefty price tag (although I've searched high and low for that figure and can't find it anywhere!). The only thing I've seen is that utilities for the stadium are in excess of $7M per year...

It really does appear that there isn't any drainage system: Colts Senior Exec VP Pete Ward said, "Whenever there is an imminent threat of rain, we're going to close the roof." The stadium "is not waterproof," and unlike Reliant Stadium and Univ. of Phoenix Stadium, the field "has no drainage." Additionally, "speakers, scoreboards and other electronic equipment are exposed."

The fact that there is a 0% chance of rain from today through Sunday probably played a factor in their decision to open the roof. Would be interesting to find out if they solved any of the unbearable heat complaints that the Colts team and fans had in previous games where it was hot out and the roof was open... although I would imagine that it probably wouldn't be that bad for a night game.

I guess I don't see cost of opening/closing the roof to be a factor. Here in Milwaukee, the first year or two that Miller Park was open with its fancy retractable roof, they opened and closed it almost every home game to show it off. I understand that we're talking about two completely different designs, but I can't imagine that the cost of opening/closing would be all that different. In any event, if it really cost a six figure number to open/close the roof, would they have been doing it at every game? Probably not... The last article makes it sound as if you just need a couple spotter to sweep the roof's tracks for debris, and then be present for the actual moving to make sure nothing abnormal is happening. Everything else is controlled by a few mouse strokes. The roof actually generates power as it opens, so I can't see that much cost being associated with it. As a side note... Perhaps some stadiums are looking at what happened with Miller Park as a reason not to open/close the roof unnecessarily. The park opened in 2001 and by 2006 needed over 13 million dollars in repairs to fix worn out/broken parts in the roof system. Some blamed poor design while others pointed at the fact that they opened and closed the roof way more than it was intended to...

The point behind my post.... It sounds as if stadium officials have complete control over the opening/closing of the roof. They too envisioned having the roof open for 'band performances', but I think the fact that the stadium is not waterproof will take precedent over any promoter's desires. DCI may desire to have the roof open... but the stadium district will ultimately have the final say. Any chance of precipitation will cause them to close the roof... whether DCI wants them to or not. On the flip side, if the roof were to be open, it sounds as if conditions inside the stadium during the afternoon can become almost unbearable with the roof open on a hot sunny day. Having the roof open may make it very unpleasant for anyone attending afternoon performances. The stadium wasn't designed to have enough ventilation to be used during the middle of August with temperatures in the upper 80's or higher. So open may not be better in that respect...

Here is a bunch of information about the roof... some relevant and some not... It is to feature the only retractable roof in the country with two moving panels that will meet in a peak above the center of the stadium. Those same panels will rest above seating on the east and west sides of the stadium when the roof is open. The roof on Lucas Oil Stadium will boast a larger opening -- a 4.5-acre hole to the sky -- than the three other current or future NFL stadiums with retractable roofs, and it will work so efficiently it'll generate power when moving down slope. Controlled by cables wrapped around drums and run by electric motors, the entire roof will open in six minutes on a third less horsepower than an Indy race car packs. Operating parameters NFL rules require teams to decide three hours before game time whether a roof will be open or shut. During the game, referees control any decision to change the position of the roof. Some other considerations: * Wind speeds: The roof and glass wall will be closed if winds exceed 40 mph. They can operate in speeds up to 55 mph. * Weather: Operating temperatures are between 40 and 110 degrees. Neither the roof nor the wall will be open if snow or ice is present. * Speed: It'll take nine minutes to open or close the roof, six minutes for the wall. Also distinct to Lucas Oil will be the large window on the north side of the stadium that will open to provide a view of the Downtown skyline. Facts about the Retractable Roof * First of its kind SuperFrame Structural System * It's the first NFL stadium to have a roof split lengthwise, requiring five rails instead of the typical two to move the panels. * The roof's two segments, weighing 5.9 million pounds each, are guided by 16 cables up a 13-degree slope about 300 feet above the ground. * Gabled roof with peak running north/south down center of field * 176,400 square feet opening area - that is an opening of 4.1 acres. The stadium has the largest retractable roof, even bigger than the stadium under construction in Dallas. * Its slope is the steepest of any retractable roof in the NFL. * Long narrow panels "stack" over building and do not overhang or shadow the building facade * Operates on cable drum drives mounted to transporters * Approximate 9-11 minute opening and closing time NFL rules for roof opening -- home team determines if roof is to be opened or closed 90 minutes before kickoff (except if precipitation is within the vicinity of LOS, temperature is below 40 degrees, or wind gusts are greater than 40 mph, then roof is automatically closed). It remains open unless there are hazardous conditions (lightning, severe winds, precipitation, low temperatures, etc.) Once closed, the roof may not be reopened. For events other than Colts games, operation of the roof and window will be solely at the discretion of Lucas Oil Stadium management. Due to the fact that the football field does not have a drainage system, and plumbing and piping are not insulated in Lucas Oil Stadium like many other outdoor stadiums, the roof should be closed during any inclement weather. If the outdoor temperature is below 42 degrees Fahrenheit, the roof will be closed. For Colts games, the team and the NFL must determine long before kickoff whether the roof will be open. If the game begins under open skies, the roof must remain open for the entire game, according to NFL rules. "Yet, the field does not have a drainage system . . . " For other events, the decision usually will fall to Fox and his crew. He envisions having the roof open for band performances and concerts. Promoters for a rock show, for example, could choose to keep the roof closed until the headliner comes on stage, Fox said. "Most of it really will depend on the weather, though," he said. "You can open the roof when it's 95 degrees if you want, but it's probably not in the best interest of the fan when air conditioning is available." One thing is certain, Fox said: Opening the roof will be reserved for important occasions. "If someone is having a 20-person wedding reception and they want the roof open, it's not going to happen," he said. "It's not a toy." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lucas Oil Stadium's retractable roof was open for the first regular season game, but closed on the second because of the possibility of thunderstorms, said Pete Ward, Colts senior executive vice president. The new stadium is not waterproof, he said. The field has no drainage and speakers, scoreboards and other electronic equipment are exposed, so the Capital Improvement Board closely monitors pregame weather. Because there was a 30 percent possibility of "pop-up" storms and the roof requires 12 minutes to close, the decision was made at 2:30 to close the door. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lucas Oil Stadium and Colts officials view the team's $720M stadium "more as an indoor venue with the roof to be opened only when conditions allow it," according to Steve Ballard of the INDIANAPOLIS STAR. Indiana Stadium & Convention Building Authority Exec Dir John Klipsch said that fans "should think of it like they would a sunroof on their car." Klipsch: "Ninety percent of the time, you're going to have it closed. When it's a nice day, you open it. But when it rains or snows or you're running the air conditioner, you close it." But Phoenix-based CMX Sports Engineers engineer Mike Lloyd, whose company designed the field and drainage system for Univ. of Phoenix Stadium, said, "If in fact everybody is genuine in saying they want an indoor stadium where every once in a while they open up the roof, that's one way of looking at it. The other way to look at it, and the way we looked at it here, was let's make it as flexible as possible." Lucas Oil Stadium's roof was open for last Sunday's Ravens-Colts game, making it the first regular-season outdoor game since the team moved to Indianapolis in '84 (INDIANAPOLIS STAR, 10/16). OPEN POLICY: Ballard noted "questions arose about the policy regarding the $15.7[M] retractable roof after it was closed" for the September 21 Jaguars-Colts game on "what turned out to be a pleasant afternoon." But Colts Senior Exec VP Pete Ward said, "Whenever there is an imminent threat of rain, we're going to close the roof." The stadium "is not waterproof," and unlike Reliant Stadium and Univ. of Phoenix Stadium, the field "has no drainage." Additionally, "speakers, scoreboards and other electronic equipment are exposed." Colts season-ticket holder Charlie Koehler said that "many fans were caught unaware" of the roof being open Sunday. Koehler: "People who were underneath the windows were in the sun all day and I don't think they knew they would be." But Ward noted that the roof "has been open for four of the five games, including preseason, the Colts have played in their new stadium." Ward would not "speculate on the rest of the season, especially with the next afternoon home game not scheduled" until November 2. Ward: "We're going to have to do it for a while until we get to know the stadium. We don't know what it'll be like if it's 45 (degrees) and sunny or 45 and cloudy. That's why we're not going to put ourselves in a box. We're still getting a feel for it ourselves, and until we do, we're going to have to play it by ear" (INDIANAPOLIS STAR, 10/16). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some Fan Thoughts From When The Roof Was Open for a Colts Game Lucas Oil Stadium yesterday afternoon was too hot to handle for some Indianapolis Colts fansand even players. And Im not talking about the action on the field. While the Colts were getting their first victory yesterday at their new home, many fans were sweating it out, especially those who were baking in a stream of sunlight that came through the opened roof. Hundreds of fans vacated their seats on the north end of the stadium during the games second half, complaining about the heat and lack of circulation. Some watched the game from the shaded consourse, while others headed home early. One fan said the temperature was barely tolerable. Not even opening the roof the night before the game and opening the large window on the north end helped bring the temps in the retractable roof facility below 90 degrees in many spectator seating areas. Some of the Colts coaches complained about the heat on the field and sidelines. Players used misters to cool themselves down. Colts Coach Tony Dungy reportedly told CBS commentators calling the game that he would like more input on when the roof is opened or closed. Granted, the temperatures this weekend were unseasonably warm, but Colts and stadium officials seem to have a pretty serious issue with respect to the temperature to address.

1 Blue Devils 92.950 2 Holy Name Cadets 91.300 3 Bluecoats 88.650 4 Boston Crusaders 86.950 5 Phantom Regiment 86.250 6 The Academy 79.700 7 Crossmen 78.450 8 Pioneer 71.550 9 Cascades 69.800

This is somewhat the case if you use Pioneer as an example. We have people on tour who have the ability to do videos and so forth, but they have other responsibilities that they must prioritize ahead of video work. In addition, the logistical aspects of getting videos edited and online can prove to be difficult while the corps is on tour. Internet connections can be difficult to come by at many housing sites, and staff isn't always able to leave the housing site to go find a 'hot spot' to get stuff uploaded. Even the official fan network videos have had to be mailed from the show site back to the office for editing. So there's a lot of factors that play into how a corps uses Fan Network and how often. It is something that we're looking to get more involved with. But for now, the focus is on the production on the field.

Just wanted to throw some caution in the wind as to why people may have been "rushing" out of the stadium ASAP after the show completed. Many of the local crowd may have been trying to make the 20-30 minute drive to the other side of town to see "Rhythm & Booms", the largest Independence Day Celebration fireworks display in the Midwest. The fireworks show was originally scheduled for Saturday night, but was postponed until Sunday night due to the threat of severe weather in the area on Saturday. Rhythm & Booms typically draws a crowd of 300,000 plus people, so it's quite conceivable that a few people who were planning to attend the fireworks show on Saturday and the drum corps show on Sunday were left trying to fit both into one evening to keep everyone in the family happy.

I think you're thinking of our previous uniform. Old and current below it. The current uniforms (not including the hats!) have gotten a lot of positive feedback.

The audition music is up on the website. If you look at the front page, it's in the center column under "Audition Info" and 2008-09 Brass. Percussion music should be up in the near future.

There is a bit more information towards the end of the article at the link below: UW suspends band over hazing charge - Milwaukee JournalSentinel For what it's worth, the band has had its share of 'conduct' violations over the past five or so years. However, I questions how fair it is to sideline the whole 300+ member band due to the actions of a select few. However, to stay on topic... The actions described in the article may come as a surprise to some. But, in all honesty, does anyone really want to address how often incidents of this nature really happen in drum corps? Are some corps more prone to incidents of this nature than others? Can you imagine a corps director pulling his corps off of tour for conduct of this nature? Or would you envision only the offending members being kicked out? Heck, back when I started marching, I didn't even know what hazing was! I just did whatever the vets told me to do because... well, just because!

It's all good. I really had nothing against the crowbar. We just happened to be next to the certain corps that had the crowbar for like a week straight at retreat and at some point in that time a "territorial dispute" occurred in which the crowbar was presented as more of a threat to us than to a water jug. But, like I said, it's all good... We brought our Pony of Power to retreat to protect us...

The problem is that retreats are virtually non existent now days. Thus, there is less emphasis placed on what is right vs. wrong. And as more time passes by since the full retreats were common place, less and less members will even know what is expected at a full retreat. And honestly, most of the time it was the section leaders or drum/horn/guard captains that were teaching new members what was expected. We're rapidly approaching a time where very people (if any) have experienced full retreats on a regular basis. So one could only anticipate that some of the old school traditions would be lost. But, to flash back to my marching days (93-00), retreats/grand finale were always fairly professional. Yes, they were painfully long at times. Yes, Cavaliers still passed candy. Yes, other corps had their unique quirks. Maybe some corps took finale a little too seriously... (Seriously... a crowbar?!?) Some others had a more relaxed approach. But in the end, it all worked out and most of the time the audience was oblivious to any of the weird stuff going on. So in that respect, when a corps actions become a distraction, then I see a problem. But if it's not something that's going to stick out like a sore thumb, I say just let it go! Like someone else pointed out, the minute they walk off that field, the season is over... Members start to scramble right away for rides to the airport and so forth. If having a little fun (within reason) is going to make the last hour of their season that much better/memorable, go for it! Crowbar Ho!

I think the difference is that most people, even if they don't agree with the way that Pioneer is run, understand why it is run the way that it is and why it is "successful". So rather than kicking a corps when its down in placements, they add words of encouragement and try to add positive thoughts. It also may be that they are familiar enough with Pioneer to know that somethings aren't going to change... that they are what they are... or that it's going to take a long time to change. Roman holds the corps very close to his heart. And while he is always open for suggestions, opinions, and criticism... it's ultimately still up to him and a select few what direction the corps is going to go. He's going to evaluate any changes to the way things are run very thoroughly before making a move. We took big strides this year by switching from G bugles to B-flat. It was a move that he hated to make. But, when the judges almost flat out tell you that you're going to take last place as long as you're playing on G bugles, he was willing to make the move to help keep the corps competitive. But when it comes to the hats, Irish/Celtic music, and a few other issues... he'll listen and take everything you say into consideration, but it's probably not going to change. Most of the staff knows that when they come to Pioneer. The members may not know that in its entirety, but they do know that they're not coming to a corps that's going to contend for a championship. That said, all of us strongly believe that if we could scrape up a dozen or more brass players and a few more guard, that the corps could compete for a semifinals spot. The program itself is not going to hold us out of semifinals regardless of what most folks think. What is going to keep us out of semifinals is a lack of members... and to a certain extent, too high of a ratio of young/inexperienced members. Every winter we start out with high hopes and a ton of interest in the corps. But for whatever reason, some of that interest fades as winter pushes into spring. A lot of potential members keeps us hanging with promises that they are going to march, but they can't make this camp or that camp for various reasons. So we end up counting those folks into the numbers, only to have them not show in the end which leaves us scrambling for members. So the area where we really need the help is in recruitment. And yes, it is hard to sell a last place product every year. However, there are a lot of things going for us and hopefully we can put the pieces together one way or another. I know that there are a lot of people dedicated to making it happen.

Once again, no need to feel sorry for the kids. Honestly, every year that they've taken last place, if you would have sat down and talked to the members... they all had a great time. It's not always about winning. They know when they come to Pioneer that they aren't going to compete for the win at most shows or a spot in finals. Instead, they focus on doing the best that they can and getting "Better Every Day". Don't believe me? Watch the watch the video that we did for recruitment in 2008. Do you hear anyone crying about our placements?

The honest and simple answer is that the corps is much better off financially competing at the World Class level than at the Open Class level. Nothing more to it than that. To dig into things a little more... by staying at the World Class level, Pioneer is able to offer its members a much better touring experience. And this isn't meant to take anything away from the experience Open Class corps give their members, but Pioneer had close to the most shows (29) this summer out of any corps (according to a preseason count). That's more than double, and in many cases three times the number of shows that most of the Open Class corps participated in. Not to mention, if Pioneer was Open Class, they wouldn't be able to attend the regionals and so forth that they are able to participate in at the World Class level. So clearly, at an educational and experience building level, World Class is definitely the place to be. The members, believe it or not, are generally not affected by placement. Does it wear on folks at times? You bet. However, as was discussed on DCP earlier this season, the people who go to Pioneer generally know what they're getting themselves into. They know ahead of time that they're not going to win DCI... or probably even compete for a spot in finals. They're going there for a different purpose... whatever that inner purpose may be. And to address the issue of dropping back down. Would it be nice to go back to Open Class and compete for a championship? I've got two nice rings on display at my house along with a jacket full of championship patches that would tend to indicate that Open Class would be a better bet. I've even bounced that question off Roman in recent years and he even admits that there definitely is a draw to making the move for competitive reasons. But, when you reach the bottom line, World Class is the place to be. Simple as that.

Lower age limits are set by the corps... and even then they usually aren't a hard line rule. I know plenty of kids who were marching at 10 or 11 years old in lower division corps.

Alright... Here's my take on things. First off... no to pity points or adjusting scores to keep corps around. If you're feeling charitable towards Pioneer, we've got a nice sponsorship program for our members. Maybe you can help out that way! Might help a few more kids to march each season! In all seriousness, I've been affiliated with Pioneer since 1992. They had a winter group back then called Shamrock Brass that I participated in the first year. Played at some hockey games and did some parades. Overall, thought it was a great time. So, I then started marching in the corps in 1993. I didn't really know what I was getting myself into, but everyone from the administration down to the staff, and then down to the members... everyone was looking out for me. I was young and needed all the eyes and help that I could get! By the end of the season, I went from being a kid who could barely hold his horn up (which is pretty bad because I played sop!) long enough to play Gary Owen, to a solid marching member that everyone wanted to come back. Lucky for them, after the experiences of my first year or so, I wanted to come back too! And come back I did... in 1994, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99 and 2000. I went from barely playing 3rd soprano all the way to soloist and horn sergeant by the time I aged out. I've been asked time and time again... Why did I keep coming back to Pioneer? The biggest reason was the experience. Everything from the friendships that I made, to the lessons that I learned on and off the field... There was no reason not to come back. Sure, there were times when I was tempted to go try out elsewhere. Friends left and went to other corps. Staff went to other corps. But in the end I always ended up coming back to Pioneer. And there were many members along side of me that marched three, four, or even more years. And granted, the corps was a little more competitive back in those days. A couple Division II/III titles always helps to keep things interesting, along with two appearances in Semifinals. But even if the corps was struggling, I probably would have still come back. Why? Because it's not about the scores at Pioneer. Sure, like I just pointed out, it does make things more interesting when the corps is more competitive... But the ultimate reason why people come back is the atmosphere. I made a recruitment video last year that pointed out some of the reasons why people come back to Pioneer. If you watch closely, you can also probably pick out many of the reasons why the corps is placing where it is. But I encourage you to look past those flaws and watch it and hear from the members themselves why they come back to Pioneer: As far as this year goes, the corps is smaller than everyone had hoped for. As usual, they're a little younger and less experienced than their competition. But they're still trying just as hard as any other corps out there. It seems like everything goes in cycles. And eventually Pioneer's time will come back around. If not this year, maybe be next year. But regardless of placement, 'Better Every Day' isn't just a corps motto, it's a way of life. That's something that Pioneer members learn that will never be forgotten, and can always be put to good use.

It's not that surprising to see them put seats behind the columns. They did it when they built Miller Park here in Milwaukee. They're called "Uecker Seats" after Brewer's announcer Bob Uecker. They sell for $1 on game day at the gate. There's something like 200-300 that fall into this category. And there are people who buy them. There is something to be said about just being there and the atmosphere of being in the stadium and being part of a winning team... Plus, you can always pay a buck and then look for a better place to watch once you're in the stadium...