Brad T.

There are a number of positions in most corps that are paid. You just gotta know which ones those are and which corps are looking.

https://systemblue.org/brass/ This is the link. Guess I can't edit my post to add it in!

System Blue, the BD outreach program, has launched a line of marching brass independent from King. The horns were designed by Jack Meehan and includes a Traditional line and a Professional line. The traditional line appears to be cloned from the Yamaha line, while the professional line appears to be cloned from the King line, minus the mellophone and tuba, which look decidedly Dynasty, and the Sousaphone which looks like a Conn 20K with 4 valves. Aside from BD, Atlanta CV, Minnesota Brass, and Kidsgrove Scouts have all signed on to buy horns from the new System Blue line. It should be interesting how this will affect Yamaha and Jupiter's stranglehold on the activity. I would much prefer for Kanstul and King to get some better footing in the activity, but any competition is decent I suppose. From what I've heard, System Blue is being built in China.

System Blue has been discontinued now apparently. The Ultimate line is the only one for sale now. The Ultimate horns aren't bad at all. Much better than Jupiter and Yamaha. My personal favorite is Kanstul though. Either Bb or G you can't match the sound quality.

I would absolutely love to play in an Alumni corps. I love the Alumni Spectacular. The classic tunes, the screaming soloists, the raw power and emotion of the bugles. I love every minute of the Spectacular. Moreso than some of the Finals performances. Sadly all of the Alumni corps are tucked in the Northeast and I don't have the time or money to commute hundreds of miles for rehearsals!

From one sketchy manufacturer to another. Wake me up when they switch to Kanstul or King. Then I'll be impressed with their decision to give the kids "only the best."

It was Blue Knights (with the mirrors). The entire hornline was on mellophones and Baritones before breaking out into trumpets and tubas. The Mandarins had their guard playing brass for one section of their show.

Marion, Ohio. The local community came out in droves this summer when the Madison Scouts spent a day at *new* Harding High School prior to the Centerville show. There was even a well written article in the local paper (also published online) about the number of Marion Cadet Alumni who stopped by, and interviews with band parents who wished an activity like drum corps was available in their community. Digging through DCP, it appears that the Marion Cadets undid themselves through apparent greed and mismanagement. It also seems a lot of folks may have been turned off by the overly aggressive tour they staged in 2004. An Open Class group shouldn't be touring as extensive as they did, especially if finances are just not there. The Cadets never recovered from that season, couldn't recruit new members, and finally were liquidated by the bank. The Cadet Hall is an MMA training gym now. If Marion were to host a drum corps again, I think people would be leery of restarting the Cadets. Perhaps a whole new group would be a fresh start. Same in Columbus with the Columbus Saints. The Saints are experiencing growth but many staff members have been asked various times (it was asked here too) if the Saints were a reboot of Limited Edition/Capitol Regiment.

Over in another forum, the drop in PR's score upon switching to Jupiter was mentioned. It was also discussed that the Blue Stars had a similar drop in scores when they switched to Jupiter from King. The authors on the other forum did not claim a correlation between the two events (Jupiter horns vs Scores), however to me it is merely more than a coincidence.

The Preston Scout House Band from Ontario plays Bb "bugles" to keep to the roots of Canadian corps circuits which required Bb bugles over G. Of course in modern usage, Scout House just plays standard Bb marching brass, including Bb French horns. They also have a limited (4 person) F mellophone line that took most of the mid voice solos and were written in drill as members of the low brass, whereas the Bb horns were written as high brass. Both sounded like they played the same parts.

100% concur. The Rubbermaid tubas... I mean Jupiter... are just awful. I love the 1121 Mellophone. I don't even play mello and I can scream out ridiculously high notes and drop pedals like crazy. Seems to me the 1121 Mello is based on an early Zig Kanstul design.

Meehaphones were 2 valved Yamaha G flugels basically. I've played King's Bb French horn and it slots almost identically to the Bb side of a double horn. Obviously because of this you either need Bb horn music or tell your kids to play all notes as if on the Bb side of their double horn. It's not a bad instrument, of course I also have tuba chops so French horn is really pushing it. I would love to see a group like Kidsgrove throw everyone in for a loop and adopt flugelhorns and Eb Cornets for a show and have as close to Brass Band instrumentation as you can get. Of course the number of people per part would be much higher. Having been in a marching band with Eb Cornets, there is a time and place in which they are useful and wanted!

I thought the Adams marching tuba was one of the best playing tubas at DCI finals this year. It had a true tuba sound, was responsive throughout, and rather lightweight. The Kanstul was also a great horn, but the setup of the 4 valve cluster was too close to my face to be comfortable. I'll be looking forward to what sound differences Phantom will have this coming season!

Why did I leave it at that? Because as soon as someone tries to explain why they don't like Yamaha, they are dismissed as clueless amateurs who know nothing. So I allowed all of you rabid Yamaha fangirls the pleasure of bashing me with less work on my end. I've played plenty of Yamaha horns, and hated every last one of them. They have no response, no sonority, and simply feel like the shoddy workmanship they actually are. If I ran a horn line and someone donated a whole line of Yamahas to me, I'd either sell them and buy something better or just refuse the donation. The same goes with Jupiter. Give me something American made any day. King or Kanstul, there's no other way to go.

Oh I forgot, since I'm not a college educated musician, clinician, and whatever other useless paper or titles you consider to be successful, that my opinion means nothing to you. God forbid someone tells you something you don't like. Who made you the all-important master of being good at trash talking others on a message board? I'd love to know your supposed educational exploits that make your opinion of specific brass so much better and qualified than mine. Until then, I'm thoroughly unimpressed with your lazy drivel about "I'm better than you because XYZ"

Kanstul, King, Adams. First, second, third. I would never consider Yamaha or Jupiter. They're offerings are complete and total rubbish.

I keep missing the boat on one of these. I've been tracking down one for over 5 years at this point and I've either been too late at asking or ineligible to purchase (ie: Empire Statemen's full horn line sale that went to JOBE). Let's make a deal. People say good things come to those who wait. Well I've waited long enough!

Sounds like a similar fate that has befallen Capitol Regiment. Cap Reg still runs twice weekly bingo in Columbus. Raising money for what? I'm not entirely sure. Seems like people would have to restart these groups with bylaws allowing the Board to be purged by the staff through a vote of no confidence.

DCI: World Class: Pioneer for sure back in 08. Open Class: Les Stentors is still on G. DCA: Open Class: Skyliners are still on G. Class A: Kilties and Cincinnati Tradition are on G, Excelsior is mixed. One has to go to SDCA, Alumni Corps, and the US Marine Drum and Bugle Corps to find G's in any large quantity.

Why sure, I'll feed the trolls... Amazing - I can hear the tubas. Their sound is rounder and has more body and presence compared to the 10 pound Yamaha tuba and the Jupiter "paper thin brass" Quantum tuba. The Baritones and mellophones can cut through like the horn lines of the 90s. The trumpets have that signature sizzle that corps have been missing for many years. Sound - see above. Blows out of the water - I've heard corps after corps on Yamaha and Jupiter horns, and they have this stifled sound to them. Normally I cannot hear the tubas whatsoever, exceptions being Madison and Bluecoats, and expect to just hear synth bass to make up for this. I've played the Quantum and Yamaha tubas and they are really not very good horns. So I'm not surprised that synth bass is needed. Oh, I also prefer the sound of G horns exclusively. Kanstul's Bb brass are simply cut down versions of their G horns, so they are designed for an outdoor arena. No 10 pound tuba, no matter how big a bell, is going to create a deep bass sound. This was proven back in the 1980s with the DEG Super Magnums and K-90s vs the 4/4 DEG Contras. With a weight of maybe 15 pounds at most, and a 19.5" bell, the Yamaha marching tuba to me is like a slightly larger belled variant of the pea-shooter DEG everyone hated but used anyway. Of course, Spirit purchased their horns through the Tama partnership, and so were able to purchase the (not listed on Kanstul's website) 4 valve 5/4 BBb marching tuba. So if you don't like my reasoning for liking Spirit's sound (ie. Bringing the classic feel of a drum corps brass line... just in a different key), feel free to move on and troll elsewhere! I am simply showing my support for a corps that decided to go a different route and become the second WC corps to return to playing a 4 valve marching bass voice (BD System Blue being the other). The only thing I was missing at the end of their performance was the characteristic G overtone series. The brilliance and body were there, but no overtones!

I was looking forward to hearing Spirit ever since I heard they were getting Kanstul brass. I have not been disappointed. They have such an amazing sound, especially from the low brass, that just blows the Yamaha and Jupiter corps out of the water. I hope for Kanstul's sake this is their foot back into the drum corps door.

The keys I listed are relative keys to the bugle. Those would be concert pitch C, G, D, and A, and associated relative minors a, e, b, and f#. Corps today seem to congregate in the concert Ab, Eb, Bb, F area. A great example of this would be Phantom's "Fire of Eternal Glory." The G bugle version and the Bb brass version have the same voicing and parts, but the G bugle version is written in concert C, while the Bb brass version was transposed to concert Bb. The bore of Bb vs G horns, as a measurable difference, not a "G sounds better" "No Bb sounds better" bickering party, breaks down like this: Dynasty G: Sop, Mello - .460 Baritone - .560 Euph - .570 Contra (3v 4/4) - .670 Contra (4v 5/4) - .710 Kanstul G: Sop, Alto, Mello, French Horn - .470 Baritone - .562 Euph - .593 Contra (4/4) - .656 Contra (5/4) - .689 Olds piston/rotor bugles: Sop, Mello, French horn - .468 Bari - .562 Contra - .656 And compared to Yamaha Bb/F: Trumpet (Xeno 8335) - .459 Mello - .462 Bari/Euph - .571 Tuba - .728 System Blue: Trumpet - .459 Mello - .468 Hybrid Bari - .562 Tuba - .734 Jupiter: Trumpet/Mello - .460 Bari - .531 Euph - .592 Tuba - .689 So what I am seeing across this comparison is that high bugle voices had larger bores compared to their Bb modern counterparts. However, when it comes to low brass, especially tubas, Kanstul makes one of the largest marching contras out there at a bell-to-bow length of 42", while at the same time having the smallest bore of any comparable marching tuba/Contra. Yet, even with the huge bore of the Yamaha and King horns, their sound projection is nothing like I would expect. Is this an issue of lack of air from extensive marching? Are the players not used to large bore horns? Most concert tubas are in the low/mid .700s. One of the defining sound characteristics of old school drum corps was the bass voice. You didn't get a warm, fuzzy presence like with a synth, but rather just the feeling of being slapped in the face with a bass trombone at FFF. A raw power to the bass chords. I would easily say that the undersized bore in the contras was key to that. The DEG 2v Contra had a similar sized bore while King began exploring larger sizes with the K-90. This gave the King corps a depth unavailable on a "pea shooter" horn. Today I can hardly hear the tubas at all. All of the big brass hits have synth chords and open 5th bass notes filling in to give a presence that is otherwise lacking. I refuse to believe that lobbing off 5 feet of tubing to bring a GG Contra up to BBb would change the tone quality and presence of the fundamental horn (not talking harmonics/overtones). But yet this seems to be the case. My experience with System Blue is very limited, perhaps their giant bore tuba does bring back some of the missed presence and volume! But having played Jupiter and heard plenty of Yamaha and Jupiter corps, there's just something lacking at times.

My SoundSport ensemble has a mix of chrome and silver plated bugles. From a distance you can't tell, but up close the blue hues of the chrome vs the yellow hues of the silver really contrast. Bugles were chrome plated simply because it looks better on the field than lacquer, and because chrome plating holds up far better than lacquer or silver. Early single piston bugles could be had in lacquer, silver, satin silver, chrome, gold washed bell, or even raw brass. Eventually it seems that chrome was settled on as the standard. DEG 2v horns were available in lacquer (Memphis Blues and Colts), silver, or chrome. King 2v horns were available in silver or chrome. The most common keys to play 2v bugles in are F, C, G, and D major and the relative minors of d, a, e, and b. Going out from those keys you run into Bb (can't play low Eb) or A (can't play low G#). With creative inversions you can play in additional keys. And the S leadpipe on Contrabasses? That was standard until the 3 and 4 valve era. The first contras made by Getzen and Whaley Royce all had S pipes. The S pipe even came on some of DEG and Kanstul's 3 and 4 valve GG contras. Everyone sort of settled on the U pipe in the 90s, except Kanstul's 4v Contra Grande with continued to have an S pipe, and then later King's System Blue brought it back.

The only note you *really* need that slide trigger for is high G# (top of the treble clef). This note is normally played 2-3, but can be played 1 on any horn. Playing it 1 changes the note from being the 7th harmonic of the 2-3 (Ab) series to the 6th harmonic of the 1 (Bb) series. The 6th is roughly 30 cents flat on any horn ever built, so the 2v bugles were built with a reverse spring loaded slide trigger. The slide without spring is much shorter than what it should be, allowing the 1st valve to play the G# in tune. The spring and the stop nut setup allows you to tune the slide extended for all of the other notes. This reverse sprung trigger is still standard equipment on the 2 valve Kanstul bugles ordered by The Commandant's Own USMC Drum and Bugle Corps. However, 3 valve G bugles do not have this trigger.

Different arenas, but Rhythm X Winds used a line of Adams Brass this year in WGI Winds. They sounded decent on them. Also, the Guardians have at least two Schiller marching tubas that were donated to them. I don't know much about Schiller or Wessex Tubas which also makes various marching brass clones.