mad_scotty

but your system would reward performance, not design, and to install it you'd have to get it approved by, well, designers, people whose salary justification is based primarily on a metric of how well their designs place when they get done plugging kids into them. drum corps stopped being about the marching members a long, long time ago dude, you have to remember that the system exists to justify and sustain the system, not the other way around!

i can't understand where you are coming from at all. i guess it's because to me drum corps, as athletic as it is, as competitive as it is, is still primarily an art form, not a sport. i have never trusted the system of "olympic" judging, and i think we are all well aware that it is at best a deeply flawed system that creates a false illusion of "fair competition" and at worst a hammer that breeds assimilation within a narrowly defined scope of achievement. there is a lot less diversity in drum corps than most people realize, everyone is playing to the judges first, and notions of creating something original or passionate or communicating with an audience are far too often swept aside because we all know what happens to shows that refuse to play to the green shirts. the trade off of judging drum corps by a single criteria is a single vision that corps flow into, the sort of unifying blandness that has been driving fans away for a decade now. drum corps is the only major art form i know of that accepts this kind of confinement of spirit. i think the only sensible way to judge shows, if they must be judged at all, is to use the same jury system concept other art forms use to adjuticate. let the jury review the shows, make specific critical comments for the staffs use only (like they already do) and instead of affixing a weird, false numerical score to each show just give out an overall best in show, and maybe some best in class awards for individual sections, and have the leeway to occasionally but not always grant a special award to a corps who has produced an iconic performance of that rare, don't see something like this every year variety, like a star 93 or madison 95. and even that will not always get it right (the stands in jackson exhaled a huge wave of relief in 93 when star was announced in second, even people who loathed the cadets show didn't want star to win, not until the vids came out and people started really seeing and hearing that show).

the problem is, none of these can be judged consistently well on the fly. if you go back to the vids or audio recordings and review them dispassionately after the fact you frequently find huge glaring errors in judging. to me the two most obvious were the 88 blue devils hornline and the 95 cavaliers visual package. a lot of people thought the blue devils were robbed in 88 for a number of reasons, not the least of which was their hornline, an amazing group, one of dci's truly great all time hornlines. at the time i thought it might have been the best run a hornline had ever had at finals, they were just undeniably great. i even thought that after listening to them on cd, until one day i listened with my head and ears instead of heart, and finally started hearing all the fracked notes. that corps doesn't go 30 seconds anywhere in that show without someone just falling out of the ensemble and making an obvious error. and when i say obvious i mean some of them are practically 89 solo obvious. but even though they basically had a corps wide mental breakdown that night, i still think of this as one of the all time great hornlines. they were gorgeous, incredibly musical, the phrasing was sophisticated and it was in all ways an impeccable performance by a truly great group of musicians, only by some twisted act of fate about a dozen people fracked notes badly enough to be heard over the ensemble on the same night. i don't think even the judges heard them live though, because the corps was just so great they literally cast a spell over everyone in the stadium, everyone was in the presence of greatness, and knew it, and you just can't really tick away greatness. you can later, when you can distance yourself from it and listen analytically, but right there in the moment the moment itself is going to take over sometimes and drag you with it. that's the difference between live and recorded. another glaring example is the 95 cavaliers. they waltzed into finals week with new closer drill, took the place by storm and won the whole deal. everyone knew it was the amazing new drill and their exceptional performance of it too, that was clearly what put them over the top. but it never actually happened. in buffalo in the stadium on finals night in 95 everyone bought it, even (especially) the judges, but if you go back and look at that finals run today on video it is without a doubt one of the worst meltdowns in drum corps history. it's as hard for me to watch as the infamous 89 devs and 91 phantom sop soloists, the corps as a whole just loses it in the closer. they didn't hit a single set in the last 90 seconds of their show, not one. but they won finals on the basis of that same closer drill blowing away the judging panel. they were so caught in the moment that there are places where guys are 2 steps out of a straight line form with their feet wrong, and somehow in the moment of performance it all looked and felt right, not just right but perfect, enough to launch that corps over 4 much, much cleaner shows. hard to blame the judges though, i was basically a drooling vegetable in the stands that night after watching madison, cadets, devs and phantom step off in succession. who can judge something analytically after experiencing that? sometimes you lose yourself in the moment, really, in any good drum corps performance you do. and there is no way to quantify it, some shows and some nights just have the ability to take you out of yourself, and measurables get thrown out the window. there is no way to precisely define and judge everything that is happening in a drum corps show on the spot, no way at all. so while i agree with you that judging deals with a series of specific criteria that can actually be measured scientifically and compared with other groups to develop a performance ratio, i don't think humans have the innate ability to complete distance themselves from the emotion of the moment and accurately quantify all the data they are presented. there is no such thing as mathematically accurate judging, short of finding a dozen sociopaths with degrees in music, art, design, and dance and training them as judges there never will.

i have yet to hear a single instance of electronics on a marching field that was seamlessly integrated into a total aural concept. not one. whether you like the idea of electronics or amplified voice on the field at all or not, i think any honest discussion about them has to acknowledge that they are never used competently, and as a result they always create a break with the other voices on the field.

in either 74 or 75 i believe madison did a complete rewrite of the show in their midseason break between tours, and i've heard (but can't confirm) that the cadets had an entirely different show and made the change to appalachian spring at the last camp.

Most overrated Cavvies show ever is a tie between 92 (11th place hornlines shouldn't win finals) and 95 (the corps had a finals night meldown and didn't hit a single set in the last 90 seconds of the show). Most overrated Cadets show is 93 (people actually still claim to like this show and think it deserved to win. It had 2 minutes of good music and a zillion props. And nothing else.)

top to bottom i'd have to say 92: 1)Cavaliers-I have never heard the 72 Kingsmen so I can't say with 100% accuracy that this is the worst hornline to ever win a title, but seriously, I think that Wayne Downey and Jim Ott probably had a better hornline than this in 72 so yeah, hands down the worst hornline ever to win a title. Outside of that though, the drums, guard and marching package were all time great. Only with about an 11th place hornline. 2)Cadets-right there with 93 Star and 95 Scouts for worse judging error in finals history, this show was amazingly sweet and engaging live. 3)Star-I absolutely loathe this show. 4)Blue Devils-OK, the shirtless closer thing was lame, but man, the Stan Kenton suite in the middle was spectacular. And it was, I think, the origination of a long time Wayne Downey staple, pairing a sop and bari for an extended melodic solo to create the feel of a, well, sultry tenor sax. 5)Scouts-this show ranks right up with 88 and 95 Madison for pure energy and crowd appeal. People went berserk for this show, absolutely bonkers, easily the biggest crowd response all year. 6)Crossmen:They finally made it, managed to get a hornline to sound as biug as the drums that had been blowing everyone away the past two years. And the show was full of great musical moments. 7)SCV-an all time underrated show and hornline. Seeing them live, they were unbelievably warm and rich, really filled the stadium. 8)Phantom-Regiment, 1812. Ok, not the all time best 1812, but the small ensemble thing early in was sweet! 9)Blue Knights-People sort of forget the old days, when the Blue Knights were very new and fresh, played really light and crisp and sweet and everyone in the stands was cheering for them. You know, pre star wars, pre dots clean wholesome likeable Blue Knights? Remember? 10)VK-The last great VK show. The judges always dissed them, before Madison got an automatic 2 spot drop in ranking because of judging bias VK got a 4-5 spot ranking. I hope those judges roast over slow fires in hell surrounded by the sound of broken accordians. No, not really, thats probably to their taste if they don't like VK!! 11)Bluecoats-Blue, Beatles, hell yeah!! I liked these guys a lot better when they were always floating around in 8 to 10th place playing jamming shows. 12)Freelancers-OK, it was Walton, I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but it was still the Freelancers, and they were always worth a watch. Always. Anyways, outside of the Cavaliers truly awful hornline, DCI's strange scoring/dubious winner, and Stars utterly unlikeable show, this was a great, great finals. A lot of phenomenal hornlines, some great visuals, and great musical selections, for the most part. And a deep show, not quite 88 deep (you could watch just the bottom 6 in 88 and see a great years worth of shows), but still a very solid 12 corps line up.

have any of you ever seen a spirit uni? the corps logo is a delta airlines delta, and the traditional uni is delta air blue. i don't know if that started from a sponsorship, or if it's just because atlanta in the 70's was so closely identified with delta air, who was its largest corporation (coca cola used to be a lot smaller than they are today, they ballooned in the 80's). on a semi-side note, the marching band contest at my alma mater for many years was called the tropicana music bowl. why not?

Well, I for one am thrilled that SCV, a real trailblazer of the nonannouncement announcement where the corps claims to be making a show announcement only to release a weird unhinged title with no relevant information on show content has elected to simply inform us of their actual plans.

darn! i was hoping to see the kids wearing them for the first time today. i think all of us remember the ifrst time we actually got to put on our unis and line it up in front of a live audience, it's a great moment.

the op asked which DEFUNCT corps we wanted to come back. star isn't defunct, they just don't compete at dci sanctioned events.

i just got the final word on the uni's for birmingham high school. they are going to accept the donated blue and white unis from trion h.s. in georgia. we tried to set up free shipment through fedex (my brother is an employee) but bhs needs the unis quickly, and the fedex committe that approves charitable shipment requests only meets once a month. they were able to approve an employee discount for the shipment though, and the uni's are going to be shipped next week at a cost to the recipient of about $260. they should have them on either thursday or friday, just in time for a marching competition they are entered in. i'll try to get a pic of one of the uni's up here (i know a couple of people are curious), and i hope someone on the california end can take some pics of the kids marching out in them as well.

this thread has really got me thinking that this can't possibly be an isolated event. surely there must be more cases of a band in one part of the country needing some equipment pretty desperately and another band has upgraded something and has old gear taking up storage space. i'm toying with the idea of opening a ning group that can serve as a sort of clearing house, let band directors post their needs in the group and let other band directors post anything they have an excess stock of and need to clear out and are willing to donate. there are also a lot of groups willing to doante money to music and education (and music education) projects, if they could be networked with as well there might be some good possibilities to cover shipping. can anyone provide some feedback here? i mean, ning groups are relatively easy to open, i can do that much, but a group like that needs to be active to be worth the trouble.

2 words: bring a camera!

i talked to my band director friend, he got in touch with someone at the school in california today and he is donating a complete set of 100+ old uniforms (including shakoes and chickens) to them. his unis are blue and white, so they should be very easy to modify to fit in with the blue and gold scheme at their new home. your post got me thinking and i called my brother today, he's also a fedex employee and has some contacts at the corporate office, he is drafting a proposal for fedex to ship the unis for free tonight and he should know within a couple of days whether or not they have available space in their donations budget on this short notice. if not, the school has agreed to pay for shipping, so either way they will get the unis in a week or so. i just hope we can get the shipping knocked off, it sounds like they could really use that money somewhere else in the program right now.

good question, someone will have to call ups or fedex ground and get a quote, which will involve measuring and weighing the boxes, and getting both addresses.

my old madison seat partner is a high school b.d. with some conveniently blue and white uni's he's looking to donate, about 120 in number. i fyi'd him about this thread, and at his request i sent the op his contact info. he said if someone can find a way to pay for cross country shipping the uni's are birmingham h.s.' for the asking, so dcp has been a positive influence for a change.

sorry, you slammed another corps in another thread gratuitously today, you lost your fail grade handing out privelage for one week. but, in the interest of fairness, that dude really, really fails.

do they care what color they are? a friend of mine contacted me a couple of years ago to see if i knew of anyone who needed some donated used band unis, i didn't and at the time they were in storage. not sure if they are still warehoused or nor, but if they are he'd gladly send them to anyone who can pa for shipping, i'm sure. have they tried grants? this same friend applied for a grant from the band widespread panic and they bought him about $50k of new equipment (mostly big expensive concert instruments) as part of the proceeds of a concert they do each year. i'm sure california has to have a couple of programs like this they could appeal to, and if they don't, well, maybe they could start one.

i think in terms of caricatures "dcp posters making pissy comments whenever madison does latin" seems a lot more accurate than "madison always does latin" to me. try this out. go to corpsreps. search madison's history. look at what they have actually played through the years. latin themed shows are a small fraction of the whole, and they are mixed in with rock, pop, film scores, symphonic music, broadway, and non latin jazz (mainly big band, but several other jazz styles are represented as well). madison has a definitive style, but it's really big, loud, aggressive arrangements of music from eclectic sources, not strictly (or even mostly) latin jazz. when you pop onto a madison thread talking about latin jazz caricatures, you don't really sound very clever to anyone who has seen more than a couple of madison shows through the years.

fyi, if you aren't currently in the top 6 it takes more than 9 months to build a top 6 corps. considering the dramatic improvement this years corps made from '07, why would you consider changing any of the staff? besides, last years corps was very young, with another year under their belts they should be tremendously improved.

wow, i can't believe this is news. in my college band we had a smoking bus and all the potheads rode together and hazed it out on the way to performances, and we'd break out kegs and occasionally and get nekkid on the way back home late nights. in other words, we acted like typical college students on a typical weekend. we were discreet and no one made a deal out of it.

don't know if they still do it but this was a confirmed fact in my day!

i've always felt that of all the skills a performing artist has at their disposal, emotional intensity is by far the hardest to pull off, and the rarest. a performance that combines real emotion with technical skill is the most impressive thing, and something drum corps rarely even attempt anymore. a technically masterful performance that lacks emotion is just sterile to me, and a complete artistic failure.

because most people believe the first thing they hear, no matter how much evidence disproving it comes to light, and no one but the corps and their staffs knew about the semis score in kc in 88. all everyone else knew was that the blue devils went into finals undefeated (at least they thought as much), and after madison won the lucky draw they somehow beat the supposedly unbeatable, and they associate those two untruths into one totally believable (and still spread around) legend. its kind of like the jfk magic bullet myth. there was no magic bullet, the original forensics investigators drew up bad numbers assuming the second victim was seated perfectly level with the president, which skewed the bullet path, in actuality he was seated slightly below and to the presidents left, and the bullet took a perfectly straight path. unless you're a conspiracy theorist, in which case there had to have been a second bullet to make the same series of wounds. ugh. anyways, the myth that the random draw in 88 rigged finals has been one of my drum corps pet peeves for 20 years now.