Kieren

About time. This could be very interesting.

The story did seem a little forced, but...I think with better guard and drill design, they could have told it effectively. I don't think you can give the drill writer and the guard designer a free pass here.

Good lord...how many posts are you going to make trying to defend _________ in roundabout ways? Deal with it and move on.

That is very odd. You'd expect that sort of thing after a rough season. But I guess it does happen...I remember reading someone's diary of PR 1993 and it said that a lot of PR members went to march Blue Devils after 1993, which was pretty successful for Phantom. And at the time, there was no way of knowing BD would have the year it had in 1994, since they were in their driest stretch of no championships.

I don't think I can take the World Drum Corps Hall of Fame seriously if it doesn't have the Cadets as the corps of the 1980s. Cadets won 4 titles in the 80s, as compared to Blue Devils' 3, SCV's 2, and Madison's 1. They also had the first threepeat and revolutionized the activity. On the flip side, I don't see how the Blue Devils are not the corps of the 1990s. They won 4 titles compared to Cadets' 3, Cavaliers' 2, and Star, PR, and SCV with one. They likewise caused a paradigm shift for the activity heading into the late 1990s. Those two decades are completely reversed. That being said, I don't see how the Cavaliers can NOT be the corps of the 2000s. 5 titles and a completely different mindset toward the designing of a show.

It doesn't upset me...it just makes me think your opinion is wrong and mine is right. I'm a Cavaliers fan, but I felt midway through last season that PR should have been beating them. When I saw them early, though, that was not the case. Cavaliers were definitely ahead by a nice margin...it was until PR started cleaning up that they became a better program, I thought. As for BD...maybe it's because I am a Cavaliers fan, but they do nothing for me. They did nothing for me last year...I thought they should have been 3rd.

Most of what Phantom Regiment played last year was not a "classic." They used some of Spartacus, true, but there was a lot that was new to drum corps. Same could be said about 2006 Phantom Regiment, 2005 Cadets, and much of what Crown played this year. I don't think we're in danger of running out of music...I think we're in danger of allowing visual concerns and needs dictate what music we can program and HOW it is to be arranged. Music isn't ADD (as you put it) because we didn't think audiences would "get it" if we used full phrases, but because the full phrases were not conducive to fast 8-count moves that would look cool. I think it is harder to program a show these days because of THOSE concerns, not necessarily because they are trying to come up with something new each year.

If drum corps had undergone some huge, HUGE change in philosophy this year, then i could understand such a statement. However, drum corps did not undergo a change. Phantom Regiment simply put out an inferior product. To deduct from this that the activity has passed them by is just silly. This wasn't like some of the shows of the late 90s and early 00s, drill full of 24- and 32-count moves, easy transitions, and lots of stand stills. There was a lot of velocity in this show (and in last year's as well). It wasn't very effective, I will grant you, and there were not many nice-looking transitions, but there was velocity and an attempt at keeping up with the joneses. They just, unfortunately, designed a poor drill book and this was compounded by having a poorly designed guard product. It has nothing to do with drum corps passing them by, and everything to do with bad decisions along the way. I am sure the organization will take note of those bad decisions, fix them, and plan to be back in the top 5 next year.

Could they? Of course. It will all depend on the show vehicle they are given. I thought they were great this year! They should be very proud of their accomplishment. First new corps in the top three since Star 1990, I think. Wow.

Jamey Thompson. Johnny Sanchez. Tony Hall. Brian Hildreth. Garrett Decker, I believe. Close...his brother Greg. Because it was high school drill? Really good high school drill, but hs drill nonetheless. Brazale, not Brazzalle.

I remember it because I got on a Star kick in the winter...that 1990 show blew me away, so I started to watch all their shows (thanks Fan Network!). 1985-1987: Newbie shlock. 1988: Too much pink, but at least the music is serious... 1989: Getting there. Drill was disappointing (though I was told they changed a lot of it midseason). 1990: Great googly moogly! They've arrived. 1991-1993 : Awesomeness. Wish I were old enough to have seen them live.

Star 1992.

I don't know if these guys were the first ones, but corps marched 16 contras/tubas as far back as 1992 Star of Indiana.

They most certainly were not.

Dear GOD! What in the heckfiretarnations IS THAT?????? What happened to Madison? Are the color guard supposed to be blue Spidermen?

SCV - 1973 champs, 1974: 1st. Madison Scouts - 1975 champs, 1976: 2nd. Blue Devils - 1976 champs, 1977: 1st. Garfield Cadets - 1983 champs, 1984: 1st. Star of Indiana - 1991 champs, 1992: 3rd. Cavaliers - 1992; 1993: 5th.

Stupid. Old. Cliche. Not funny or inspirational anymore. Please to be stopping it. Danka!

Stupid. Old. Cliche. Not funny or inspirational anymore. Please to be stopping it. Danka!

You're right...time will tell. After all, I hated (HATED) the 2007 Phantom show, but by the end of the year, it was one of my favorites. Not one more word from me until one month from today, when we can all have a little better prespective on what SCV has up their sleeves.

Right. Because Vanguard has NEVER turned out a show that could be labeled "mild clunker." *cough cough 1993, 2005 cough cough* (in all seriousness, I hope they do have some sort of soooper seeekrit plan to wow us all, but lets not pretend that corps staffs are infallible and always know how to put on a great show. i mean, yeah, they know more than you or I know, but they are still not perfect) as for staying true to the spirit of Martha Graham, my girlfriend is a dance major (master's student...yeah yeah yeah, go ahead, make the joke about advanced degrees in dance, she hears them all the time), and this is her quote (she was with me at the Walnut show, and we've both watched it on FanCast): "That was not Martha Graham. It's more like Jane Dudley or Pearl Eaton." I have no idea what that means, but from her tone of voice it doesn't sound good. :-P Not knowing a darn thing about the world of dance, I'll defer to her on how Martha Grahamesque something is from now on.

Well, I'm going to say it. And I hope that at teh end of the season, someone can dig up this post and make me eat some serious amount of crow (because I do sincerely hope i am wrong): SCV will not place in the top 8 if they do not do some serious tweaking of the drill. And you know...it would be very cool if they alaready have something like this in mind, something where they have learned extra transitions and subsets that they arent using right now, and then at the first regional, BAM! Here is this "new" show we havent seen before. But somehow I doubt any corps can really do that these days without someone giving it away. The brass book is ok, nothing spectacular, and the drill just detracts too much from the show for the GE scores to improve drastically enough to beat out Crown, Bluecoats, Phantom, Cavies, Cadets, or BD. That right there puts them in 7th place, and who knows...there are a host of hungry 8-12th placers who would love nothing more than to crack into that 7th spot...it is not beyond posibility that one of them could overtake SCV. BD is already leaving them in the dust, and I expect to see a 5-point gap within the week. Blue Knights and Blue Stars could both take them... Go ahead, flame away all you want, my opinion is pretty meaningless, I'll admit, but that is what I think is going to happen without serious changes to teh show.

The great thing about the iPhone is that I can keep waiting by the phone...while I go on about my daily life. I'm going to wait with bated breath. After all, I too can live in France at a moments notice. (you're not really playing this card, are you? The old you-are-not-a-drill-writer-so-you-can't-criticize-drill card? Substitute "drill writer" and "drill" with artist, or music, or anything you like. Hey, I am not a gourmet chef, I can't even boil eggs...but I know the difference between a steak for Morton's and a steak from Denny's. Don't you? Can't YOU see that the drill is clumpy, there are slow (VERY SLOW) transitions, and the drums are being used to carry the motion? You don't need to be a drill artist to see that, you know...)

I am sorry but... ...in my head, I can see much better visual matches for AS. The drill may not be "bad" per se, but it isn't a great drill. Heck, there were more exciting drills in the mid-1990s than this one, before the Cavies and Mike Gaines came along and turned everyone around. The transitions take way too long, the drill relies on percussion to carry the motion an awful lot of the time, the drill is too clumped at times... I am SURE they are going to add and tweak things throughout the summer, but lets not pretend that this particular drill is that great, like some people are doing. It is merley (merely?) ok drill. It isn't even as creative as the drill SCV had for their 1991 and 1992 shows, far as I can tell. I find it funny that people are now saying that they are ok with blah drill as long as the music is good...maybe I just haven't been on DCP that long, but wasn't Phantom getting a lot of flak for having blah drill and good music early season last year? I remember reading that people have been getting on them for years about that, but now that SCV does it it is ok? Phantom's drill last year wasn't that great, but it was still better than SCV's this year. Like others have said, I will continue to give this show a chance. Shoot, all of the talk about it has already forced me to watch it on FanCast again, and again, and again....may be something will click.

Well, I'm glad you think its fine. I've been listening to it ever since I read the original post... Now, granted, concessions had to be made because you can't field a 25-minute long tune on the field, meaning Cadets had to cut more than half of the music. However...they did a great job of interpreting it faithfully and honestly...heck, they did a better job with that aspect of it than Phantom did with the New World Symphony, I think (last I checked, the fourth movement of New World does NOT begin with a big ol' honking timpani solo...oh boy, i just opened upa big can of worms didn't i?) After listening to it again (both the original and the Cadets version), the only real differences I can tell are: + The opening was drastically cut, and Cadets moved the Simple Gifts big statement to the front to help "punch it up." +The Cadets removed the moderato section (part 3), which is about 3 minutes. +The Cadets removed a chunk of the Subito Allegro section (part 5), about 2 minutes' worth (but kept the best parts). +The Cadets removed the entire 6th section, ("slowly, as at first") +And of course, most famously, they added the tag at the end of the show. Thanks to DCI's Fan Video, I also listened to SCV 1977, which comes nowhere near the faithfulness of Cadets 1987. I'm genuinely curious as to what parts you think are not faithful, or why specifically the show is not accurate...not looking for a flame war, I am really curious, because I have the opposite opinion and want to make sure I am not crazy!

I've been seeing this argument a lot lately (that SCV did AP before Cadets), and while that is fact...what is the first corps that comes to mind when you say: Malaguena? Was it Scouts? And yet, according to corpsreps, the Cambridge Caballeros were the first to do it. New World Symphony? Most people would say Phantom, but a whole lot of corps did it before Phantom. SCV may have done Appalachian Spring, but Cadets OWNED that piece (and i mean that in the current version of the word, not in the "No one else should ever do it" version). What I don't get is how 87 Cadets "barely even sounded like App Spring." I have a recording of the original...and it sounds pretty darned faithful to me. Maybe I'm not listening in the right places.