BoyWonder1911

Isn't that what Open Class is for? Or maybe you are trying to politely say that we should split WC in half and make the lower corps Division II, and the higher corps Division I? I disagree with having mandatory lower age limits. If a 16yo is good enough to hang with the big boys, then let him hang. I think there was even a 16yo on the snare line at Blue Stars last year. He's not here this year, don't know where he went, but he was good. And it's not like the Blue Stars are taking whoever they can get - they have big audition turnouts. Now someone is going to come up with a bright idea that all corps should have the same average age. "Sorry man, I know you're among the best snare players in the activity, and I know you've been a Cavalier through and through for 3 years, but you're 21.5 and we just can't keep you anymore because it would put us over the average age limit." If you want parity, fine, but the overall product will suffer because of it.

Here's a question for y'all; if they *don't* win it this year, then what? Do they need to start looking in different directions for show themes? Seems like they took a huge turn in year 2000, and they were wildly successful. I also think last year was the beginning of a *slightly* different direction, and it remains to be seen if they will be successful with that as well. Personally, my favorite Cavs show is 1992, and I'd really like to see them go back to something similar in musical style, something perhaps a bit more classical. As for this year, amazing show, but compared to BD and Crown, not as good a musical program. But then again, the Cavs of the last 10 years have been known primarily for their visual programs. I think BD and Crown have the best musical programs, but their visuals are not as strong. However, I think Cadets have a better balance between music and visuals than everyone else this year. I think this may be the reason they might win it.

Wow...does anyone else realize how powerful a statement that is? The ramifications of that being true, and also not being incidental, could up-end everything I, or many others think about the judging system.

So there are some shows whose themes are pretty solid and apparent. Then there are some shows that are hard to understand. I'd like to keep this topic in the realm of the purely subjective. Cavaliers - took me a few shows to come up with what this show means to me - a boy wandering around "where the Wild Things are". Anyone else come up with something different? Cadets' show is pretty apparent, Angels vs. Demons... Blue Devils, still have no idea what it's about. Same with Bluecoats, although I was led to believe by their theme title, that it was to be about the Orwellian book. I really see no evidence of this in their show. Regiment, pretty obvious, it's about Juliet from the Shakespeare story. Vanguard, it's about trying to escape hell. And I think if they really wanted to up the ante, and add more to their show, they could add in moans and screams of hopelessness and agony...would certainly fit the theme... Blue Stars, it's about Jason Bourne trying to escape from the CIA. Scouts, it's about businessmen in NYC. Crown, a 1980's rave. In any case, I'm trying to get to the shows that don't have a solid, concrete theme - Blue Devils, Cavs and Bluecoats certainly have this going on. Their shows seem to be open to interpretation. What do these shows mean to you?

I liked the 2001 Cadets show a bit, but did not vote for it. I voted for 2008 Blue Devils. They were completely undefeated that year up until August 1st in Allentown, and then Finals night. One of my favorite shows of all time. I'm not a huge Blue Devils fan, but once in a while they put out a show I love, and this was one of them. Some say they should have won it that year, but despite being beat at Finals by a come-from-behind Phantom Regiment, this show might have won any other year. Also voted for Crown 2009 as my 2nd choice. Excellent show in my opinion, and a classic example of a 2nd place show. Other years this show maybe might have won, but regardless, this show is the best Carolina Crown has ever put out. Even loved the uniforms. Faust was ok, I just didn't think it deserved 2nd, maybe 3rd. I also loved Spin Cycle, but now to think of it, Blue Devils deserved the title that year.

This is why I love the Blue Stars organization so much. The people who run and volunteer for this corps are smart, professional, mature, and very passionate. They are also very classy people with big hearts, not only for their org, but for the activity as a whole. And they put out quality, fun, exciting, classy shows, with not as much regard for how they place. Sure, they very much want to move out of 8th place, but they are not going to sacrifice putting out a crowd pleasing show, and instead putting out something to gain that 'other' kind of attention to try and get ahead. Even the marchers here seem to think this way.

Seems to me that Crown is trying too hard to get attention. I like the Cadets' sense of disciplined professionalism in this manner, rather than playing for pats on the back. "Like us! Like us! We're Carolina Crown, and we're the best thing since sliced bread, please like us!" Maybe that is a little cynical to think that way, but that is how I feel about the quoted statement right now, and it is also how I feel about their recent show theme selections.

Blue Stars are playing "Forget You". Not a song I've ever enjoyed by any means, but hearing them play it, it's starting to stick on me just a tiny bit.

The Cadets won in 1993, putting out one of the best shows in drum corps history at that point, along with Star that same year. Both being behind 1989 Vanguard, of course...some may even say behind PR 1989... There is a reason why Star 1993 didn't win, and it was because the Cadets program that year was just as incredible, but a bit cleaner. Star 1993 was memorable because it was so uniquely different and innovative at the time. I can't see SCV being memorable in this way because 1) it wont be as clean as Star 1993, and 2) Star already did innovation in this same manner. I appreciate SCV trying to be unique and innovative, and trying to stick with their identity at the same time, but there are always risks that go along with that.

The Blue Stars this year have an average age of 20, and that info I believe is calculated by staff and not just hearsay. I believe that is pretty veteran for any drum corps. As for the individual sections, I have no idea.

Since you put your phone number on your signature, can we all just call you and use up your minutes instead of typing all this out?

Yes, hence why I mentioned there is probably a fat chance of that happening. And I kinda disagree with danielray. Like I said before, we have a country with a population of around 320 MILLION. Gauging from the fact that we have about 15,000,000 high school students, if 8% were in band, that's 1.2 million. How many play brass with enough talent to march a corps? Or enough talent to learn a brass instrument and make a drum corps? 15% maybe? That's probably 200,000 potential marchers. PLUS college. Add another 50% to that, you have 300,000. There are only 3,500 open spots in all WC corps combined, and not all of them fill up all their spots. How many audition and not make a corps and then not try out again that same year? 9,000? So it's probably not a bad guesstimate that 10,000 people either march, or try to march in any given year, for a WC corps, and there are approximately 300,000 that could make a drum corps. So you're telling me there is enough interest? Baloney. I think these numbers are evidence that there is not enough interest. That could be due to a whole plethora of reasons, including "not knowing what drum corps is". 300,000 marchers is enough to fill 2,000 drum corps! Imagine that...would be incredible.

Haven't seen Academy yet, and Only have seen Spirit once, back in Martin, TN, but that one performance 2 weeks ago still has me reeling - it is going to be close, and Glassmen are consistent, yes, but that show just loses me. I *kinda mostly* understand the theme/style/story they are trying to portray, and usually that alone (understanding the show) is enough to interest me enough, but their visual and music woes are just too hard to notice at this point, although they have been getting better. This show is aggressive both visually and musically, and IMO I just don't think this year's Gmen has what it takes to keep up with a more dominant, in your face entertaining Spirit show, and I think Spirit also has the audience on their side of the fence this year. And like bawker said, they have a lot more GE to work with, too, which is the biggest chunk of score. I even like the Troopers show better than the Gmen, but I have never been a big fan of shows that end softly with a corps gallantly galloping into the distant corner. The Colts have this going on too, and although it may fit in well with the theme, I think it may hurt their chances of beating a more dominant, aggressive show like Spirit and Gmen have. I'll have to put Spirit first, then Gmen, Troopers, Colts, and then when I see Academy's show, I'll put them somewhere in there. In any case, I really hope it proves to be a long, hard-fought battle for that final spot this year. Competition is good for Drum Corps, believe it or not. And I think some of this rise in level of performances has to do with the fact that there are now TOC events with last year's top 8, and it may be that staffers from corps outside the TOC feel the need to be more aggressive in competing with these 8 corps who are put on this pedestal and shown to the world like a diamond ring. I especially see that coming from the Scouts. They seem to be much more competitive. Competition drives innovation and improves a product, and hopefully this will prove to be a maybe unexpected, incidental benefit of the TOC.

I chose 2005 Regiment, then 2010 Bluecoats - but I was also considering 2000 Blue Devils. I think I've only seen the 2000 BD show once or twice, don't remember much about it, but I remember it was really good. I think this 2000 BD show probably didn't get as much attention as it could have due to the fact that the Cavs and Cadets put out 2 very incredible shows, the Cadets show being IMO the best drum corps show ever written in the history of drum corps. I chose the Bluecoats because it was their first medal, and I chose 2005 PR because I love Gershwin.

Ok, I see your points. I'll take back my statement about that, but I guess we'll just have to let history play out. 10 years from now, I'll ask this question again and see what the answers will be. I'm just not sure this SCV show will become that. Honestly, this show could be 4th, or it could be 9th...the show has a lot of potential, but whether or not it's clean enough to let the GE become a factor is what the issue will be. In any case, I'm excited for those corps out west to start coming back this way. To add to the "other shows" that became legendary, I'd have to say PR 2003 might be among those, and also Blue Devils 2008. That "Absurdity" show was a blast, and I loved it. Nothing from last year really sticks out a whole lot to me though in this regard...maybe the Scouts? Everyone, including me, btw, BBMM, seemed excited to have them back with the big boys. I enjoyed Regiment's show a lot, too, I thought it was a very beautifully designed program, with a solid, unique theme and relatively good execution, especially from percussion. Ok, have to ask - most epically legendary show of all time? I probably just hijacked this thread with that question...sorry!

SCV will really have to clean their show to make a Legend...and as difficult as it is, when they only scored 92pts at finals last year, seems to me their corps has to improve dramatically over last year to achieve that legend status. I have to *almost* agree that Cadets and Cavs show will be remembered from this year, and it's not going to matter who wins - both shows are epic. The winning show will be remembered a little bit more, of course, that is how it almost always is, but both shows are pretty beast...I don't remember seeing upside down quad and trumpet players, and I don't remember a show like the Cadets where half are wearing different colors. In either case, I really think that because of both of these fine shows, the Blue Devils will have an off year, and will not be remembered much - but then again, ...oh never mind. But in all honesty, I've never seen a mosh pit on a football field either. THAT is epic...and I think 10 years down the road, this show just may stand out a little more than the others from this year. No one has forgotten the 2007 Crown show, have they? I can't even remember who won that year, or who did what show. I only remember Triple Crown. Kudos to Crown for making memorable shows.

Like I said, to have more parity in drum corps, you need to have more talented people deciding to march, or having the ability to pay for it. Recruiting and scholarships would probably help, and I think someone mentioned recruiting earlier. I also wonder how many people audition for a corps only to not get a spot, and then decide not to try and get a spot in another corps? If we had more corps, this might not be a problem. We need more corps, and more people marching. Oh wait...isn't this the entire point of this thread? Eh, throw money at the problem. Anyone have a problem with gov't funding? As if that's a possibility right now, when states like Minnesota are shutting down. Would anyone like to make a deal with me? If I ever win the lottery, I'll give half of what I get to various drum corps...would anyone like to match me on that? If you ever win the lottery, take a few million dole it around?

Too many other posts to read, and they are all long, and don't have the time to read them all right now... But I think I've talked about this before in another thread a few weeks ago. The problem is money and interest. If you want 15 corps to be as good as the Cadevaliers, then you need more talented members, and members with talent who WANT to march, and members with talent who can AFFORD to march. I believe there is enough musical talent out there to fill at least 20 corps with the talent last year's top 5 had. I believe that most of them just don't care to march drum corps. Perhaps the drum corps experience needs to be more enjoyable on a broader base? A lot of marchers probably enjoy the rigors of tour, and the very few off-days they have, but this doesn't appeal to everyone... Who (besides the VERY few that march) wants to give up their entire summer and pay $2k-$3k practicing all day everyday and eating out of a semi-trailer? 23 WC corps x 150 + injured and alternates = approx. 3,500 marchers. The population of the US is 320,000,000 +/-. How many kids in the US can play an instrument? A couple million?

I see a few grammar errors in your statement as well... I just wanted to mention how I feel about staff being noisy - in professional tennis, a player is not allowed to be coached from the stands by their coach. Most other sports are different, but when you are giving a performance, I don't think it should be allowed to coach or hurl instructions at your corps while they are performing. I think they should be allowed to cheer and applaud like anyone else.Has anyone mentioned this? Also, you'd think the staff would want to be analyzing the show top to bottom to see where the weak spots are, so they know where to start off at the next morning at rehearsal - and I'm sure it makes it difficult to pinpoint specific parts of the show when you're hootin' and hollerin' and having a corpsgasm...

Are you sure about that?? Or are you talking about all corps in general, including all age corps? Even if you have the population to have enough talent and membership to start a corps, it doesn't necessarily mean you are going to have plenty of money...a WC drum corps costs, give or take, $1mil a year to run - and even more to start out - have to get equipment trailer, cook trailer, four wheeler, corps vehicles, souvie trailer, etc - I would think that just to START a drum corps would cost $500k, and then plus whatever expenses are incurred over the touring season, whether touring heavily or not. Drum corps is very expensive......and that is why we don't have 200 drum corps like we did 50 years ago.

I think Cardman was just putting the corps in order for his favorite shows. No one in their right mind would have Blue Devils in 12th.

Yeah, but they're only Open Class.

I had the pleasure of seeing 2002 Cascades and 2003 Spirit live at the Indy regionals those years. I voted for 2002 Cascades, but both were great shows. I voted for the Cascades because it was their first and only Finals appearance ever. But the 2003 Spirit show was exquisite. They even played Whitacre's "October" - beautiful piece.

^ yeah, it was a shame that Star left the circuit. Blast is/was good, but I think they probably could have kept the drum corps at the same time. What would a drum corps from Utah be called? I'd like to see Michigan have one, but there are many options for us Michiganders to go to. We are surrounded by drum corps states. Also think Texas could support another one, but it's so hot down there. Same with Phoenix too, don't know how they do band camp when it's 100 degrees + every day. The Minnesota area might could support one, but Blue Stars and Scouts are just across the river. How about Alaska? They could be called the Oilmen, and the crowd could chant Drill! Drill! Drill! when they come out onto the field. But seriously, I'd like to see more foreign corps in the activity. It would be really cool to see one come to the US and make Finals. I don't think Kiwanis Kavs ever made finals, but they put out a couple of decent shows.

They could also implant motor-controllers into the appropriate part of the brain, and program the implants for having the marcher move to perform his/her/its drill 100% accurate.