BoyWonder1911

^ Hey, Pioneer hasn't always gotten last, you know. Spirit cheesy?? Hmm...I've never thought of cheesy when thinking about Spirit. Also very curious on the Blue Knights being hippies! LOL Care to elaborate on that one?

^ good point. They could also toss swords (not sabres), maybe some garlands of hemlock, etc.

What is Guard?

So about this inflation...what is the economic solution to inflation? Cut the money supply by raising interest rates? How would that translate to drum corps??

I think Crown's show has very good musical arrangements, and their brass played them very well - that was at the very first two shows in Texas. Didn't get the best look at their visual, but from a music standpoint, I thought they did well. So if they are going to falter from taking a medal this year, I think it will be visual design holding them back, because I can't see them faltering from music.

No one is mentioning Music City. I saw them a couple weeks ago in Martin, TN. Sure, they stood and played 75% of their show, and the marched the closer, but they have a good sized corps, they put out some sound, and honestly I think they were a tiny bit better in music than Teal Sound that same night. I hope I get to see Music City again this year, I'd like to see their final product, or something close to it.

First of all, don't make assumptions. I did march, in my high school marching band. I know it's not quite the same as marching drum corps, but they are both marching. And besides, marching a drum corps hardly automatically qualifies anyone to give an educated opinion on things. And second of all, it doesn't matter if someone's opinion is unqualified or not, or even maybe ridiculous - this is DCP. 99.99999999999% of us are not ever going to change the drum corps world for the better or worse with our opinions. And finally, I'm not new to this activity. I haven't been around since the 70's, but you probably haven't been either - probably born in the mid-late 70's from my guess. I've been a fan since 98, when I discovered the activity. I don't follow up on who's director of this corps or that corps, or the entire history of Jim Mason, etc, whatever. Frankly, I don't care all that much - I just like to watch shows and drive trucks, and then come to DCP and unintentionally drive you bonkers. I am familiar with some history of DCI, not a whole lot, but some. I'm also familiar with some past shows. Don't make me out to be some clueless noob. And as far as musicality goes, I'm pretty sure I could hold my own in a contest between you and I on any given brass instrument. You pick. If you're going to take my posts seriously, fine, but leave me alone about it. If you're going to laugh to yourself at my posts and tell yourself how unqualified I am to give any kind of opinion, then fine, but keep that to yourself as well. I'm really getting tired of reading you criticizing my posts, and not only mine, but some others' I have noticed as well.

LOL Whatever, man. I just give my opinions how I see them. And I didn't try "instructing" people on how to watch a show. I just merely told people how I DO watch shows. I do try to analyze everything. When you watch a show for the first time, yeah, it's fun, and I like to enjoy that, but when you see the same shows almost every day for 2 weeks, one can't help but notice things. I hear cracked notes, being out of tune, missed dots, etc. because I know what to look for. I'm not exactly a musical amateur. And it makes it worthwhile for me in the long run, because when a corps finally gets a certain part "right", and when they improve things, I notice it, and it makes me appreciate what the marchers do all the more, and it makes my applaud all the more meaningful. Now go ahead and pick apart my opinions, BBMM. I'm waiting. I'll be up allllllll night!

Heh - I hope he isn't the truck driver they (Scouts) had last year up until Allentown...I heard he had done a little bit of damage...also had the privilege of watching this guy struggle for half an hour to get out of the small parking lot near the Kalamazoo show. That was a blast. The other truck driver they had last year was a pretty cool older guy, had the pleasure of talking with him a few times during the season, but I don't think he is back this year. Also became friendly with one of the drivers from Teal Sound, not sure if he drove a truck, but was a really cool guy nonetheless. Truckers FTW!!!!!

I don't speak with any kind of authority at all! I guess that goes to say what kind of perspective you have on me. Do you see me as an authoritative figure?? I drive a truck. That's about all I do, besides play a few instruments and write once in a while. As far as tick system, that's really what they use now, without calling it that. It must be that, otherwise how else can they judge with any kind of objectivity??? You can say "well corps A missed a few notes, but blended better than corps B, who missed a couple less notes than corps A, and their music was more exciting" what kind of judging system is that? Maybe corps should have 20%-25% of their score be determined by difficulty? Let's say after the Atlanta regional, all corps' shows will be analyzed from recordings on how difficult the drill and music is, and be given a score 1-5 for brass, 1-5 for visual drill, 1-5 for colorgaurd and 1-5 for percussion (in .1 or .2 increments) - and all those scores will STAY THE SAME until Finals weekend, where if something is added to a show to make it more difficult, than it should be noted so, and given an appropriate increase. Then judges will have at least some kind of objective measuring tool in place to help them determine how close to accurate a performance was. And I'm not speaking with any kind of authority, just throwing wacky ideas out there. That's what I do when I'm bored.

I believe the Cadets did a patriotic show in 2002. Show was called "An American Revival". That same year, Boston Crusaders also did selections from Appalachian Spring, among a couple other pieces.

Maybe so, I'm not sure when they stopped using this supposed "tick" system and started using the current system. And I'm not complaining about the judging because I'm b****ing and moaning about low scores, I know they will even out in a week or so, but I'm just really, really curious about the exact criteria they use...I'd like to know what goes on in the minds of the judges, and I really don't have access to the audio tapes they give to corps...maybe I might sneak into the RV and borrow one for a little bit...meh... Anyways, can't wait for the corps out west to strollin' back this-a-way...kinda getting bored seeing Bluecoats, Troopers, Colts and Cavaliers at every single show...watching these same shows almost every day, I really hope I'm not starting to become jaded...need some fresh blood to feast my eyes upon. LOL But I guess that is one of the perks to working for a drum corps all summer...if you have never marched or ever been involved with a drum corps, you might try touring with one - they can always use kitchen help, drivers, etc. It's about bedtime, goodnight.

Hey, man, all I had done was suggest the judging system might be improved, and someone asked me how, so I gave my fantastic, futuristic alternative. Not trying to give a "clinic" on this, just my wild ideas, ok? And the "tick system" really is not a bad idea, given how much complaining is going on over the current subjective system. And I'm tired of you ridiculing my posts, trying to get a reaction from me, especially when someone specifically asks for my opinions. Instead of doing this, why don't you come up with your own idea?

Well there could be other alternatives, I guess one could be creative, but in my dream would be for all performances, both musically and visually, to be thoroughly analyzed on the spot by supercomputers to judge accuracy, and then have those percentages put on a 22.5 point scale. As far as GE, there could be 3 judges for each GE caption, and they would all be averaged out, and put on a 22.5 point scale as well. Then, have a crowd-noise meter, and give each corps a score of 1-10, based on a bell curve, based on how much reaction there is from the crowd. And the crowd should know this is happening, and voila, you have your audience participation. Then, take the 22.5's and times them by two, then add the crowd participation score, which would count for 10% of the score, and there you have it. Ok, it's a 100% point scale....kinda....only to make it so that crowd participation only gets 10% of the pie. Of course, I don't think we the access to computers that could systematically analyze a performance both musically and visually, on the spot. Even if there are computers that could do this, they would be excrutiatingly expensive...

All scoring is relative to the other corps at the same show. And as far as the objective criteria a judge uses for judging a performance, that is all relative between judges as well. We saw that indicated the very first two competitions, when Crown went down 4 points from one show to another. Objective criteria is not as objective as you think. And, it is very difficult to judge shows - try having a judge explain why a corps should get, say, exactly 7.5 in brass and not a 7.4 or 7.6 - I'd bet they'd have a hard time explaining that. They might also have a hard time explaining what kind of brass performance gets a 7.5 and not a 7.6 or 7.4 before judging a performance starts. I'd bet they might try starting off with something like "well I gave the last corps a 7.x, so in order for this corps to get x amount higher..." etc. which, then, brings us to "well what made you give the very first corps the score you gave them, since no one went before them and you can't give them a relative score based upon the corps before because there WAS no corps before?" What will the judge say then? "Well, I had read that at the last competition, Judge X gave them a 6.5, so this time I figured they probably did a little better, so I'll give them a 6.7" I really don't think they are there with a calculator on their desk, with 10 on it, then hitting - .1 every time they hear a wrong note, or out of tune, or not blending well at that particular passage, etc. To me, THAT would be more objective than what seems to be the case now. And all this is why scores don't matter, only spreads. And I know this might be off-topic, but I'd be in favor of the entire scoring system being totally re-thought, and get rid of the 100 point system.

Has anyone mentioned Messiaen's Turangalila Symphonie? More specifically would like to hear the 5th movt, "La Joie du Sangre des Etoilles" (The Joy of the Blood of the Stars). There is a real nice version of it on the site that shall not be named. Look for the recording with Aimard/Davis and the National Youth Orchestra of Great Britain. It's astounding.

^ LMAO It could be worse. It could be Luigi Nono. Personally, if they keep going this direction, I'm hoping they might at least try some Messiaen, or some late Schoenberg.

Don't tell me you really think that show can compete with what the Cadets and Cavaliers are putting on the field, plus Crown's and BD's brass..... in my opinion, no one is competing with these 4, period. And I think it's also worth mentioning that the Cavs haven't competed against anyone else in the top 4 for a while, now. I guess we will all just have to wait until Minneapolis to see where things really are. They should have a full adjudication panel, too. Hopefully they do without the tornadoes and the herding of everyone into the bathrooms this year. That was not a pleasant situation to be in...

Brasso, why are you getting your panties all in a bunch worrying about whether or not someone is a fan of a certain corps?

Everyone from last year, minus Glassmen. Really want to see Spirit in there instead. No offense to Glassmen, as I've been a big fan of a couple of their shows, but Spirit's show is just on fire. EDIT: Hmm...been thinking about this...I'd like to see Troopers in there too, come to think of it, but really am not sure who I'd replace...maybe hope for a tie with Spirit in Semis, if that's even possible. I'd hope that if they tied in score, they'd let them into Finals, even if Spirit has a higher GE. Maybe they could tie for that, too.

I'm not going to think about this very much, I'm just going to take the first thing that comes to my head. Blue Devils - latin Cavaliers - machinery Cadets - emotional SCV - Christmas (green and red?) Crown - cake (no idea) Phantom - classical Bluecoats - "300" (their helmets remind me of the movie "300") Blue Stars - fuzzy Scouts - pine (again, no idea) Blue Knights - bowling (their logo reminds me of the pin set-up) Glassmen - triangle Colts - ketchup crossmen - Zorro Mandarins - asians Pacific Crest - the ocean? Teal Sound - electronic clarinets (sorry! but it's the first thing that came to mind!) hmmm Pioneer - clovers Spirit - hourglass (the first time I went to a live DCI show, Spirit was doing a show called "Time". Believe that was 2002?) Cascades - Giantkillers (when they were successful in 2002, someone in the DCI media said they were going to be Giant Killers. Too bad that didn't actually happen. But I still hope. I love this corps to death.) Jersey Surf - Jersey Shore Academy - David (my friend who lives in Phoenix. He has nothing to do with DCI, other than I took him to a competition once. He loved it. That was in 2004.) ... Legends - of the Hidden Temple Capital Regiment - storm (remember when they played their New World Symphony show in a rainstorm and the crowd went nuts.) Blue Devils B - brand x Blue Devils C - brand y bridgemen - bananas!

LOL @ DrumManTx I know it's wishful thinking...BStars aren't going to even come close to Cavs this year - no one will - except Cadets. But it's good to see that we are keeping it competitive. What I'm anxious about is when they start to finally get some more judges. There were no field judges in Whitewater. There was no one walking around on the field. When they start doing that, who knows what's going to happen. Like someone mentioned, the Cavs might have to cut the upside-down trumpets - if they can't play the music upside down with any kind of good quality, then they will be forced to remove it from the program, lest get hit by the scoring sheets for it.

Oh - and wow - I just looked on corpsreps.com at the scores for QF, SF, and Finals in 1996. Quarterfinals - 1)Blue Devils - 98.3 4)Phantom R - 94.5 Semi Finals - 1)Blue Devils - 96.9 4)Phantom R - 95.5 Finals - 1)Blue Devils - 97.4 1)Phantom R - 97.4 I can't believe they closed an almost 4 pt gap in 2 days. I find that incredible - was their show any drastically different from QF night to Finals night? What I also find incredible is that the Scouts DROPPED 4 points from QF night to Finals night. I find that really hard to believe happening - did they have a really bad performance during Finals? Were any of you actually there that weekend, and can shed some light into what happened? Every single corps dropped points from QF to Finals - except for Phantom Regiment. Colts even dropped 5.3 in two days.

Yes but 96 at Finals was also very, very clean. It must have been a combination of cleanliness and just the right amount of boost to GE to get them into the tie for first. I can see this show winning Finals, but they would have to make a bunch of drastic changes. Since they changed the scoring system a few years ago, it's all about GE. This show just doesn't have the GE in it to get past 93, or with a VERY clean performance, 94 - they would have to probably re-write a good 33% of their show to have a chance at winning. They need to make the show more demanding. The show just is nowhere near on par with Cavs and Cadets in terms of demand at this point in time, but it could be.

Last night in Whitewater, WI there were no judges at field level whatsoever. At least I could not see/find any.