westcoastblue

BD: Amazing moments. Great individuals. Lacks emotion after ballad. Ending s_ _ _ s. SCV: 2017 Champs. They have all captions on fire. Show is nearly seamless. BD cannot say the same. Hurts to admit. Crown: Really strong. Ballad singing is still out of tune and lack luster. Lacks emotion overall. Ending still not right. Bluecoats: Great corps. Some of 2017’s greatest moments. Ballad does not work. Details missing. Cavies: Sorry fans, I just don’t like this one. I always find stuff to like with everyone. Guard is awesome. Drums good too. BAC: Well written. Currently maxed out. Sale emotion to stay in 6th. Cadets: Unique compared to all others. Some segments really awesome. Horn talent and their drill an issue. Ending is meh. BK: Think it is musically amazing. Top 3. Visually, not so much. PR: Award for most improved. Please stick with this creative staff. Emotion starting to show. Like them much better than Cavies, and mildly better than BAC. Blue Stars: Bravo in all regards. Not getting the credit in a hit-you-over-the-head year by other groups. Crossmen: See Cavies review. Been this way for me the past couple of years. Just doesn't hold my attention. Scouts: LOTS OF LOUD FOR A LONG TIME! Lots of testosterone. Story is lost. Mandarins: Glad to see again despite thin horn book. Great visual package. The Academy: Getting better with design. Probably a bit too late. Good talent. Colts: Came together a bit too late maybe. Good effort for sure. Troop: Too many good groups and not your best design. Nessun hit is great. SOA: Seems like you are doing old Crossmen. Cool in spots. Long in others. Crusaders: Lots of musical risk. Good corps. Should be higher. Crest: I am over the meaning of life shows. Seem to have good talent. Genesis: Bravo on WC year one. Some solid moments. Should be higher. Cascades: GREAT arrangements! Getting better. Great vocalist. Surf: Some potential for some cool feels. Drumline placement hurts a lot. Pio: Gutsy at times. The Company: WELCOME TO THE USA! Really enjoyed your smartly designed show.

I assume Devs not done yet. The ending is current lack luster except the brass volume. Guard contribution is super clunky. SCV. It seems to be the final ending except getting the guard members out form behind the rolling stages. PR. Doesn't seem done. Madison. New ending could be the difference. Cavies. The ending does not work for me, but neither does the rest of the show. Cadets. Think we will see something new in A-town. Crown. Hearing rumors of more than what they did recently.

Ummm. I did not hear any changes since the first show. The same 60% of pitches are overtly out of tune (largely sharp), with the same tone and diction issues since mid June. I wish I heard what you heard. Does not mean you are not accurate in stating she has had some training, I just don't hear it. Time to pull her or invest in her.

Okay. Time to say it. Having vocalists is hard. The examples of someone nailing it night after night is non-existent/rare. Crown's singer is consistently predictably awkward. Half of the pitches are out of tune, vowel sounds are strained, diction is muddled, so consistently a let down. Enough. If you are going to have a vocal soloists, I applaud your ability to add unique timbre to your show, but someone has to be in charge of them singing in tune with some sense of time and musical intent. Please tell me at least the brass staff hears this. Nothing has changed since the fist show.

Best Phantom show in MANY years. Tons of progress since Standford, tons! I really enjoy the voice and new voice overs. Well Done PR!

Son of a.

While Spirit may be the best they have been since 2013, I do not think the show will get them out of the 20-25 range. Surf and Pioneer have weaker shows and performers, but some Open Class groups will take them in the end as well. Keep recruiting guard and keep designing smarter not harder.

If you have not read the original post, I encourage that ya do. I have ignored this thread due to its title, which I find to be only slightly guilty of possibly maybe written to evoke some DCP rage, certainly from BD homers. BUT, after reading the initial post, I find it well written and not necessarily intend to poke the bear (or Devil as it were) but a legit request for help better appreciating BD show design. I wanted to post it again because like many threads, as this has progressed, it has become a defensive bashing minefield for some. Others have offered some great insights and theories. At the end of the day, to each his own- though that doesn't dismiss appreciating the fact that this poster is trying to expand his likes in the activity. In that regard, I too offer what some others have said- if you don't like the entire production, or how it flows, etc., find the moments you do like and enjoy those and the crazy performance level they bring to the field. Let the rest wash past you. Like a book or movie, or other corps, not every sentences, seen or phrase is perfect or perfectly suited for everyone. Peace.

I was talking about the voice over- the spoken words that are intended to pull the audience into the concept of the show and the various sections of the production. The singer also needs to be mixed and projected with more quality through the board. The singer is okay, pitchy as a vocal soloists tend to be.

Well then let me be of help: Environmental demand - what does this mean? As corps stopped doing elevator drill with the drum line and symmetrical brass staging in front of and on the sides of the drumline and starting to spread things out, corps wanted recognition of and ultimately reward for achievement when musical and visual elements got spread out across the field. Guard spinning to something 80 yards away is more difficult than spinning right next to the music they are interpreting. Snare rhythms are harder to align with baritone parts when placed at great distance on the field. Brass tend to play behind the beat when drummers are in front of them, etc. The space and the placement of music voices (the musical environment) affects achievement and GE. Body poses, foot speed, etc, are also a part of the environment in which performers have been placed to do their thing. Sometimes the environment is super difficult to perform in, and sometimes not. These are sometimes great design choices and sometimes they are design flaws. movement vocabulary- what does this mean? Like with language, you can have a limited, or greatly expanded vocabulary. As with environmental demand, as corps have further and further explored types of movement beyond marching forwards, backwards, slides, etc., the members have had to increase their skill set. Each movement skill is one thing on their list, their vocabulary so to speak. Members now know many types of movements, from LaBan, ballet, modern dance, etc. Since most all of these movement skills have been codified by movement experts, most often dancers, each movement has a universal term associated with it- thus using the words movement vocabulary. stylistic vocabulary- what does this mean? This can be associated with movement, and musical styles. It can be argued that if a brass player in Bluecoats is required to play swing, bebop, classical, pop, and Baroque styles in the show, this should be recognized and to some degree awarded by the judges under achievement and variety. This of course can affect GE and achievement scores. Similarly, guard members asked to do classical ballet, modern lyric, and jazz in a show means their skill set, their stylistic vocabulary is more varied and demanding than if they were simply marching in step and spinning as was most common prior to the mid 80s or so. using the terms "movement vocabulary" and "stylistic vocabulary" also comes from the professional dance/choreography and musician world. These terms may be better than saying "what all styles can you play, dance, sing, etc." or using terms like "bag of tricks", "what's in your wheel house", etc.

Are you serious?

Can we do better? It seems that so few outdoors or indoors groups do this well. The fidelity and production value has to be high or it is a HUGE turn off for me. Seriously, it seems that the process most often goes something like this- "Hey, let's get on the voice over thing. Who is the youngest girl in the group with no life experiences? Yep, her, let's get her to do it." I get that someone may think that if it is a kid in the group, or someone's sister, or niece, the winner of this year's county fair popsicle stick sculpture contest that there will be some heart connection to the members. It needs to sound authentic, believable, and like real to every audience member, not just to the kid's aunt Martha that baked and sold all those snickerdoodles at the church bazaar to raise funds for Veronica Voiceover's tour fees.

BUMP. I like this topic. After re-reading it today, and after seeing more shows live and via video, pretty insightful stuff.

And if clean, it would still be only mildly effective.

Love it. Thanks for the chuckle!

I think understand where you are coming from. How I feel in the stands based on the show, the performance that night, my past feelings for that unit and all the bias that may bring is an adjudication of sorts, but not one I have to justify to anyone- other fans, the members, the staff, other corps. I always have corps I like better than others that I would not necessarily "score" higher.

This. The question is "loaded"as they say. When I judge, I go into judges mode. I think about the sheets, how I am going to put groups into each box, where in each box, etc. I am a fan in that incident that I want to be entertained; I want to enjoy it and reward it, to see the members confident and enjoying it. When an audience member, not judging, I am not in judges mode. I just want to be entertained and not responsible for justifying rank and rate.

Some of you guys need to chill. This dude is simply saying that based on the videos he has seen, these are the things he thinks each corps needs to work on most and that those things will probably most likely determine the final placement. Of course no one is finished, much less clean. I get his take, if you were a judge today and had to tell each corps in critique what you think they should be working on, or if you asked each corps why their plan was, the things he is taking about are the things he figures would come up today in critique based on performances right now. Yes, tigger@ ? Trying to get the dogs off. However, I don't think these guys like to play any other way. As for BD, tonight's performance showed a lot of changes. I dug most of em. Agree they have such yet to do to guarantee that ring.

I see what you tried to do there. Unfortunately, it does not support any argument that you may be trying to make.

You are right. Too broad stroke, too much stereotyping of all. In my original post I did state that there were a few exceptions. That is perhaps also not true. There are probably a lot of exceptions, I just never happen to meet those alumni for some reason. Thanks for supporting the members. It is about them. If they enjoy their program and feel competitive, we will always reap the benefits of that.

Yes. Completely. But the design also fit modern day sheets, modern day considerations, modern day comparisons. etc. Madison has a past that most all drum corps wish they had. The trick is to harness that but then to put in an 2017 context. I think this year's offering is coming closer than the past couple. Bravo for the design team taking those risks!!!!

yes.

Great, intelligent rhetoric. I think it will eventually gain the corps a tenth or two and pave the way for future competitive and financial growth of the organization. I LOVE that you sir are proving most all of my concerns for the Scouts organization 2017 to be legit. THANKS!

And if today's Madison Scouts would just go back and do those same kind of shows they would also kick ### and take names. please.

Me too!