westcoastblue

I am not familiar with them prior to 2003. I voted for 2007, they only year their horn line has sounded good in my opinion. They had some power, but also played pretty well in tune with good sounds and some impressive technical and musical moments.

While this is true, the competitive scenario at that show is hardly one that I would ever consider legit. Yes, some show scores have more merit than others based on several factors. Since my friends and I attended that show on our way to Indy, let me give a list of those factors: The stands were maybe 7 -10 short rows high. The kind of rows you can take in only one step. Spirit went on an hour/hours before Troop and Glassmen DCI notoriously has a show or two after Allentown where the placements get very wonkey....selling tickets and lighting up this discussion board. The judging panel had too many upset type judges The judging panel had too many questionable judges Full sun was in the crowd's and judge's eyes until the tornado storm took place The show should have been cancelled The judges were seen leaving with judging bags while the decision to cancel or continue with the show was deliberated They seemed really miffed to have to return to the press box/field Considering the hundreds of shows I have attended, judged, worked, and marched, this one takes the cake for most poorly run in one of the worst venues I have ever visited. Sorry to push so hard, but with DCI ticket prices these days combined with my love of the activity, I am probably yelling at DCI more than I am disagreeing with your point. Don't get me wrong however, I am still disagreeing with your point. Strongly. : )

I would say that Spirit of Atlanta making 12th WAS A SLAM DUNK. After Minnesota, it became more and more clear with each regional that they were opening the spread between them and the competition. The gap between them and the rest of the corps below them was 2.6 at semis and 3.1 at prelims. That spread is almost unheard of in the top 15 or so corps now-a-days. At finals they were only .9 from Blue Stars, a very talented and well-performing corps.

Hell Yes Spirit. No corps even close and just as good if not better than Blue Stars. The show design was truly brilliant and not just to eek into finals. One my favorite 3 shows of the summer. Truly a geniusly crafted program.

"They may not "park-and-blow" like Spirit, but, the judges love their musicallity! " hmmmmmmmm my thoughts below.Though I like all aspects of shows, I am a brass musician, conductor, arranger, and composer. At shows, my ears go to the craft of what is being played, how the percussion writing fits, risk, and simultaneous demand (yes, watching and listening). It has seemed obvious to me from the first show where I saw both corps that each had some good things in their respective shows. Spirit's stood out clearly to me from day one. I really am not trying to slam or discount what Troopers are bringing to the field. I do not agree that Spirit's most demanding parts are played while standing. There are several moments where they do stand and play. The two moments I can think of that are of any real length are the one in the second portion (lots of passing of 16th notes, nice shaping) and the big arc moment in Harlem Nocturne. Both much more difficult than Troopers stand still moments. On the move they play lots of isolated hits that are darned impressive (many are quite spread), double tonguing, triple tonguing, long phrases on the move that pass form section to section. Troopers have a nice chorale stand still moment in the beginning, but the four times have have seen it live, there are tuning issues. Troopers play lots of whole notes and half notes on the move. Spirit has faster tempos for longer sustained periods of time. Spirit has much more variety in regards to orchestration choices that in turn challenge and provide each section with opportunity to play various roles on multiple ocassions, including carrying the melody. Not sure if holding and playing is a bad thing. When I watch all successful corps, it is part of what they do. Easy examples are demonstrated by the top 5 shows. I would contend that both Troopers and Spirit both stand less, if not much less, than several of those groups. Referring to Troopers as "bland" is a reaction to the long period of their show where the interest level is not maintained for as much as a minute at at time. Colors and textures, tempos, and pacing go by too slowly to maintain my interest. "Safe" is not a bad thing, certainly if battleing it out for that 12th or 11th spot. I just feel that Spirit has decided to be less safe than the corps around them and are living up to the challenge. I also find the variety of Spirit's show to have great appeal and creates challenge in and of itself because the members have had to learn techniques for various styles. The shaping, accents, and nuances are there. Perhaps because some of theshaping in quick and articulation/weight based, some cannot hear or appreciate the difficulty or the mastery. Listen to Harlem Nocturne again, not only is every measure shaped, but figures within each, as jazz or swing should be. This is why so many corps have abandoned true jazz or swing. I am thrilled they took the risk and are doing a fantastic job playing the style correctly. Hearing shaping in a chorale may be easier due to the nature of how notes pass over time. Again, not slamming Troopers, they have a very good and well trained corps. I just find this year's new finalist face to clearly be Spirit of Atlanta.

Regarding who will start us off next Saturday: Spirit of Atlanta a solid 12th with no one really close from my prospective. I just love their show. It has solid demand, great execution, and is truly unique to them and not cookie cutter as so many corps 10-17 tend to be. Troop good but a bit bland and safe. Academy should be ahead of Glassmen with a better show with some good appeal and very decent execution. Glassmen just didn't work this out during the winter and the brass sound is probably one of weakest of world class. Crossmen should be smoking Colts. This was not close this weekend. Colts have a good guard this year....but music captions are really suffering. Some good show ideas though. Crossmen may be playing the safe show card, but the execute and entertain much better than Colts. As others have stated, this range of corps gets better every year.

1. Blue Devils, just perform sooooo well 2. Cadets, incredible show, maybe most demand ever, drill genius 3. Cavies, great show and corps, a little predictable 4. Crown, very entertaining, can't quite let go of symphonic roots to truly capture rock-isms 5. Phantom Regiment, a great corps who is sticking to their style amazingly well 6. Bluecoats, very good 7. SCV, not entertaining enough and not quite artistic enough, would be lower if not for perc 8. Blue Knights, pleasant theme well-performed 9. Madison, very good and convincing, demand and depth still needs growth, drums rough 10. Boston, some great moments, but not enough of them 11. Blue Stars, lots of talent with a show that just didn't come together soon enough 12. Spirit of Atlanta, a well thought-out entertaining show, don't see anyone else close to this spot 13. Troopers, a safe show with some good moments, go to same effects too many times, lots of remaining visual dirt 14. Glassmen, good percussion, show does not flow well or communicate, brass is extremely weak 15. Crossmen, a good show that should be clean enough to jump here 16. Academy, good corps with weak guard and too much visual dirt, closer doesn't fit 17. Colts, good guard with a decent show concept, percussion are rough and the brass weakest they have had in a long while

I wish I had time for this to be more in depth. I will expand on my quick review in the Matamora thread. Racine Scouts: They were small but very respectable. The guard of two and hornline of about 10 were joined with eager and confident percussionist who entertained. Isn't that what we pay for when we attend shows? I must admit the entire time I was thinking about the rumored G8 agenda of ending all corps but themselves. If there is truth there, viewing this corps is perhaps more than just being entertained, but being reminded that such a quest to only promote a few corps is way outside of any philosophy of drum corps being a true youth-activity with various levels of purpose and service. These members certainly were having a good time, which helped me have a good time. I hope the members are as proud of themselves as I was of their efforts. Well done. Legends: The corps is very good, better than last year though smaller. The corps spreads the field quite a bit which at times amy make communication and projection more difficult. The brass served some quality sounds with good intonation and blend throughout the performance. The less than stellar moments are still pretty evident. The small guard is quite musical and olds their own for their size. The concept is a little allusive but I ma not sure it really matters. Good job. Crossmen: The drum and brass writing of the 1990s is back with a slightly current twist and a little less attitude. This unit is much better than last year and is pretty clean for this time of year. There were some solid impacts and some tasty battery playing. Brass soloists were very talented and style is well done for the most part. The guard is good but not impressive. They spend a lot of time in shallow arcs in front of the corps and not integrated enough for my taste. There is some variety in the musical selections, but the tempos are too much the same (moderate tempos) and way too similar too often. To be honest, their greatest effect is that they are much better than last year and perform in control, but after 5 minutes, I was extremely bored. It is all just much too safe with too much sameness throughout. There are two big arrival impact moments, but there seems to be few interesting moments throughout. Thanks for all of the improvements and effort to be Crossmen again. I see them as a very respectable corps, but not a finalist. Spirit: The corps went on in very low light, almost to the point that several of us were worried about their safety. Storms had knocked out the power. Spirit of Atlanta put on an extremely entertaining and sophisticated show. There was a clear jump in production and performance value compared to Crossmen. The preshow recording set a cool mood. Though not a film noir expert, the production made sense to me, dark, mysterious, sounds that remind me of old film scores, images of characters from that movie era, etc. The horn line packs a punch with a lot of exposure including multiple tonguing and lots of melody and solo and section features throughout. The percussion writing is super tastey and very musical, more like the writing you expect from the top six lines. The guard is vastly improved and at times quite impressive. The drill and coordination of effects kept coming. I enjoyed the show a lot and frankly do not think it can be compared with Crossmen in any caption nor Troopers. Politics, judges that are scared of making a statement, who knows. If there is a better corps that should be in one of those bottom finalist corps spots, bring it. Troopers: I just didn't get this. I am a Troop fan for the same reasons as most people, but did not think they should have been a finalist in 2009, nor this year. They are pretty clean and have three good moments, but there just isn't any real depth that gains my respect as them being a WORLD CLASS drum corps that is demonstrating things that a really good high school couldn't produce. Not an example of marching's major league, Sorry. The brass sound good, but are playing a grade 2 book (out of 5). The drum line good, guard good, marching good, but like Crossmen, after 5 minutes I was bored. I fully expected Spirit to three point them. As I said earlier, weak judges maybe, judges afraid to call it as is, who knows, just my take on it. A good corps none the less. There is a Trooper vibe, but similar to SCV (old SCV) lite or old Cadets lite. I do not know what else to say. A good corps that I could see again or wait for fall videos. Blue Stars: I was excited to see this as I enjoyed their show last season and I am a huge Bourne fan. The brass section is excellent and can produce both ends of the volume spectrum well. The guard design and equipment choices are fitting and add a great deal to some drill that is a little slow or uninteresting at times. The drums had some stellar moments and were staged well. I am not sure I followed a story line, but not sure I needed to do so. There are several places where things seemed a little unfinished like something has yet to be added. I thought they should have won the show, easily. More of that judge unqualified or unwilling thing. SCV: I will be pretty brief. Though a fan of modern art and modern drum corps at times, I found this to be neither. The first step to getting modernism to sell to the general public is to convince them of the quality and the overall effect. This has neither at this point. Guard good, percussion amazing, drill good and not good, horn line clearly weaker that Blue Stars, Troopers, Spirit, and Crossmen. Yes, they spend a lot of the show at the pp-mp range, but poorly. There was less than a minute of the show where I was intrigued or entertianed, The rest of the time I was irritated and disappointed. I wonder what would happen if all corps got this level of benefit of the doubt or license to do this and score an 80? Have Crossmen do this same show at this level in their uniforms and it would be a score much lower. I will see this show again soon. I hope I just ate a bad corndog and missed the whole amazing thing. Minus the drum line, I would of had them in fourth.

What a bizarre show. Corps go on. It rains. Corps stop going on. It stops raining. Lights go out. Spirit goes on in the dark. It starts raining. Show is delayed. Show still delayed. Long line to water closet. Portable lights are brought in. Troopers continue show under the lights. Rain stops. Rest of corps go on. Show Ends. It starts raining. I go home. Beer in fridge is missing. Roommate no where to be found. A quick recap (hope to write a full one tomorrow): Racine Scouts: good job for a small unit. Lots of heart. Thanks for that. Legend: Some real talent out there. Show not quite matched with performers. Crossmen: Pretty clean and good energy. Certainly an old Crossmen vibe. Clean beats. Little to no risk. Nothing new to table. Probably not a finalist, but better than 2010. Spirit: great energy and some real wow factor. keep refining. best crowd reaction. lots of finalist potential. (not fair you went on in the dark) Troopers: what? better than last year, but again, what? Clean, but what now? There just is not anything going on with any depth. Not even close to Spirit. (Really, judges. Really. Any of you musicians?) Blue Stars: cool ideas. some real solid musical and visual moments. seems to be more dirty than it should for this time of year. last year was better IMO.. SCV: what? I love avant guard and all of that, but other than 10 secs of ballad, I did not find entertainment to it at all. brass is weeeaaakkkkk. (Really, judegs. Really. Any of you brass players?)

My best friend was also in attendance. He is a pretty straight forward guy and doesn't spread rumors or try to be negative. We just discussed the DCI meeting over several beers. I need several more now. I have never seen him react like this and it isn't comforting to say the least. Like Phan, he says he can't stop thinking about everything that went on. He agrees that the Michael Cesario sessions were pretty encouraging and organized. He said that the brass caucuses were the most calm and civil they have ever been and when the visual and brass people got back in the room together, if was a surprise how supportive the task force people seemed of each other and how clear it seemed that thy were very open and working hard to address concerns in a professional way. He too seems bothered by the behavior in the director's meetings and it wasn't all about George or David Gibbs, but the lack of anything that seemed unified or professional. He said he was going to address his corps administration to try to understand how the structure of the director and board are required to function as required by the DCI bylaws. Not in doomsday mode, but wanting to be part of something positive with an activity that means so much to so many people. Now for those beers.

Never though about it too much. I 'll say the blue crew in Cali seem to stick with pretty stock classy shirts that are timeless to a certain extent. The newest shirts every year are few in number but super well done. I have never bought a shirt other than Devils, but the older I get I am starting to like more corps and want to help em out. Now that I think about it, does seem in general that corps that do pretty well competitively tend to have pretty cool shirts and maybe that does go along with their greater image or the way the want to put themselves out there.

The camp video kicks some major booty. Awesome job to Spirit of Atlanta as trying to boost their image. As for Harlem Nocturne, seem to fit them perfectly. It has been done by a few corps including Devils, but not in a long time. I don't see Harlem Nocturne or film noir has having to be all dark. Like Harlem, the show seems to fit what I think of as a very Spirt kind of show, more loose and dirty kinda. Looking forward to it.

Corps not in top twelve by and large design to make finals. Corps 7-12 primarily design to move up. Corps 6-12 design to win. Design is largely based on competitive outcomes. Audience appeal is a minor concern. DCI has fostered this mentality more and more over the years, creating the win or nothing mentality. And yes, my corps leads this win or nothing charge. They also lead and win the battle to define the sheets every year based on what show they do, regardless of what the sheets were interpreted to mean the previous year. Too many weak judges and little training or judge education for the system to work any other way right now.

I guess I am looking at the past two years. Lost their most successful drill writer with longevity ever, Jeremy Hunt, to Spirit in 2010 and now their next drill writer. So two changes in two years therre. Lost their program coordinators from 2009 (their most successful with longevity, Jude Boughton) and then from 2010 (two years in a row of changes there). Lost their percussion staff this season. Lost brass staff last season. Lost most visual staff 2009 to 2010 and now to 2011. Seems pretty unstable to me. But again, I wish them the best. Chris and Stephanie are nice people with talent, but the core people?

I am never wowed by these announcements about writers. I know from history that the touring staff makes the difference, not mail it in writers. It is so cliche these days to make announcements of "big"names to try to impress someone, inept judges maybe? and then the corps still has show and performance issues. Seems Colts are having MAJOR staff retention problems. As anyone in the staff end of the activity clearly knows, this is usually a major sign of administrative issues. If I am not mistaken, Ray Vasquez is the only remaining caption head/designer. Not surprisingly, seems Ray and the administration staff is on the same page. I wish the best for the organization and the members, though I am sure the members are contented.

I do not think this a good change. The difference between the two writers in arranging abilities and personal musicianship are huge. I was not of fan of Smith's Glassmen work.

Ummmm, what can I say but Wow! Wow! and Wow! A great addition for them, and not a writer mailing it in, but the man. My favorite WGI judge and what a smart and organized dude. Congrats to Spirit and Chris.

I hope Spirit won't look for someone to maintain 16th, not that this is what you are saying. MCM members will probably be more willing to go to Phantom and some vets may stay with PR because of corps loyalty. I think the corps/outdoor experiences and writing experiences brought to the table are the big issues. The indoor stuff and outdoor stuff have some things in common, but also many differences, certainly with a style like Phantom's. Again, best to all involved!

If you look at the drum numbers, Spirit's percussion scores were not much above the other captions since Gwaltney was there. With all the new staff coming to Spirit last year, maybe new percussion blood will help them out as well. Yes, Gwaltney was one of the more consistent parts of the staff but it seems a huge stretch for taking over the percussion caption that won last year and two years prior to that. We all know if Spirit placed higher the drum scores would be higher, but after four years with the same drum staff, why did the perc program not take off? I also think that until this past season, the writing was not very drum corps appropriate and was too indoor and too anticlimatic. Maybe there has been some education going on and Gwaltney will continue to find his corps style. The classical nature of Regiment's music also seems very different from what he knows. I hope for the best for Spirit and Regiment, but seems like a long stretch from the two levels.

One show, one recap does not support your theory. Proof is a strong word. Think there is a lot more proof of the existence of slotting than not.

Blue Devils: love the show, masters of performance Brass are great as always, wish book offered a little more Guard is great as always, super confident Drums are good, but not best year Vis is typical BD, it works, but something new would be cool. Mirrors work well Season end: Probably an undefeated season, deserved Cavies: love the show, thanks for the risks, cool arrangements Brass have a new sound, I like it Guard is very effective and communicates well Drums are really good, with some fuzz here and there Vis is typical, but working well Season end: Probably second, the surge is keeping things exciting, don't see this a a dark horse Bluecoats: love the show, high energy, physical demand could be more, show theme not evident at all Brass are great, pretty cool how top 5 or so all have a different brass sound Guard may be best they have had, really add to vis effect Drums are smokin, could grab drum trophy Vis is good, not enough compared to other top groups Season end: 3rd seems a real possibility Cadets: like this year's corps, fits them well, a winner in a less than competitive year Brass are aggressive as ever and no one can play and do crazy hard drill and pull it off like they can Guard is solid, not over the top great, yet Drums are very solid, have a little dirt yet Vis is typical but remains a standard of "How the %$#^ do they pull that off that cleanly?" Season end: tough call, 3-5 Crown: not my favorite of past few years, seems less full and less creative than, still amazed by brass Brass are well trained and pull of some amazing feats Guard is not quite as effective as past years, but good Drums seem to not be clicking right now, still some good beats Vis is typical Crown but a little too predictable and watered down from last year? Season end: again tough call, 3-5 Blue Stars: my favorite from them, some great moments! being over looked a bit Brass are very strong and powerful, could have more meat Guard is hard to assess in that they contribute some great moments, but have a few that are a question mark Drums are their best effort but still fairly dirty and may keep them from a spot Vis is clean and clear for the most part with some great effects, drill is very clean Season end: I think that if some captions get their due credit, the should be 6th SCV: though usually a fan, this show is too allusive, using last years format but with Bartok and with less impact Brass are OK, with some very good moments mixed with others that need continued attention Guard is puling off some very hard and modern stuff, not getting enough credit Drums are not their best offering, moments of dirt throughout and missing a strong presence Vis is part of the allusiveness, though taking risks, not near enough payoff Season end: A very good corps in 7th Phantom: with so many strong shows, this one does not stand out, I find the music just not interesting Brass are strong but struggling a bit with some physical demands and staging Guard is better than last year and offer some beautiful colors and sensitive moments Drums are smokin good, in hunt for trophy Vis reminds me of Myron's 06 Madison drill, too much demand without payoff Season end: A talented corps in 8th Boston: many great moments combined with some real question marks Brass are fairly strong but overblown a lot, the sound is not blended,musicality seems missing too often Guard is strong and should be placing higher, project up quite well Drums are rough at this point, too many good lines for them to not play well Vis is often good and at times adds to the lack of flow Season end: Maybe more talented than last year, but show is not as good, 9th Blue Knights: fun show with a good change for them, fairly low demand in several areas, would be higher in weaker year Brass are often overblown, but playing with spirit and selling some musical lines well Guard is much improved and project well Drums are better than Boston, but need some more cleaning, cutting? Vis is very solid, logical and followable, no real risks however Season end: 10th Madison Scouts: a easy to get, simple, low demand show, flavor of the summer corps...not saying i do not enjoy it, just not a lot of respect Brass sound good but with way too much help from electronics, hear lost of individual weakness Guard is much improved and pretty effective Drums are playing some very old school stuff and are not close to being clean Vis is like watching paint dry, without the guard, not sure what we would look at Season end: 11th, though many corps below them have much more demand and are offering the activity much more Glassmen: a show I just did not like nor get, the horn line's offering causing most of my negativity sorry to be forward but, theBrass are shockingly weak: thin, bright, unblended, out of tune, and many people are not playing, really calls the judging system into question Guard is the best part of the corps, beautiful costumes and flags, wish you had a better show to interpret Drums are OK. Snares had some clean moments, but also let a lot go, bass drum tuning was odd for me Vis has a few good moments surrounded buy a lot of what seems to be wandering Season end: seems the judges have already decided, so I will say 12th, but think several corps under them better deserve the spot Academy: a clean safe show with not a lot of room to grow, do enjoy the brass arrangements, and guard Brass are very good with little to no physical demand and tempos at or under 144 Guard is again good and performing a show written well for their abilities Drums are rough, some writing seems very odd and detracts from music GE Vis is simple but all of it works Season end: 13th-15th, not as good as last year, but clean clean clean Spirit: I really enjoyed this show and think they are being over looked for some reason, trying a lot and achieving most of it Brass have some good meaty parts and sound very good with a few individuals yet to tame, great GE moments with solid variety Guard is a definite improvement over the past few seasons. some areas to clean, carry theme well Drums are very good and should be beating many above them, I have them in the 8-9 range Vis is also much improved over past several years, all things in the right place, logical, could use more impact at times Season end: I would have them a solid 13th or 14th, really confused with any of the next few groups beating them, would have them above Glassmen Troopers: Not a fan of the show, very predictable, maybe some last year hype still pushing them (them, Spirit, and Academy are a clear notch up) Brass sound good a lot of the time, but are not at all challenged by the brass book or physical requirements Guard is weaker than last year and have too many cliche moments and lack of writing depth Drums are playing a lot and it shows considerable dirt Vis, sorry to be negative for this corps but the vis is also predictable, ripple at show start is their best offering Season end: A DCI golden child, so I will probably be wrong, but even clean would not have them higher than 15th Crossmen: Good source material not utilized well, I could not get into this at all Brass sound young and timid Guard has a few big momnets but have little demand or variety Drums have a few surprising good moments, but all many dirty ones Vis is OK, buy nothing beyond a decent high school band, sorry Season end: 16th Pacific Crest: a decent show that is fairly clean Brass sound Ok a lot of the time, lots of details yet to address Guard is very creative and musical, just dirty Drums are playing some good parts, but still not clean Vis is clean and safe, again, some good guard moments Season end: 17th Colts: The biggest surprise of the two days. This show just did not come together Brass are their best offering, decent sound, but lots of technique and timing problems Guard is Ok, but weak compared to past years Drums have some odd unmusical parts, lots of dirt, pit is best offering after brass Vis is a real wow. The drill is not musical most of the time and seems a real after thought, almost bad Season end: 18th, how are they beating Spirit, Crest or Crossmen? Teal Sound: Doing a decent show their first year in Brass overblown at times, Ok at times Guard is OK, need more staging and equipment variety Drums are aggressive Vis is clean and safe, a few cool body things Season end: 19th Mandarins: interesting show concept, not selling yet Brass have some very solid players but line sounds uneven Guard is trying to support theme, some good moments Drums are aggressive like Teal, but dirty Vis book is Ok, needs much cleaning Season end: 20th Cascades: a good show Brass have a few surprising moments, lack of depth Guard is trying to project up, keep cleaning Drums are young, but going for it Vis is sensible and has a few well coordinated moments Season end: 21st Pioneer: a better show for them, certainly brass Brass have a good beginning and then it gets a little rough, though they sell it pretty well to the end Guard is putting some soul into the show, writing and training needs work Drums are rough, pit OK Vis is pretty predictable, nothing special, low demand Season end: 22nd Jersey Surf: somewhere in the mix 19-23. Only seen video.