Bobby L. Collins

Stop calling it "drum corps", and I'll stop complaining about all the changes to the activity that make it the opposite of drum corps. Call it what it is, and we can all go our separate ways.

Truthfully they need to separate brass judges into "amplified" and "acoustic". Because there are two completely different ball games going on out there that are currently being treated as one.

$$$$$ When they started having a regional in Murfreesboro, Sevierville began to flop. It does look like Knoxville will now host a yearly open class show, but only around 1,500 attended this year (admittedly, it was the first show at that school, and the director is a huge drum corps fan, so one can expect it to grow in future). But the danger of having events too close to each other is that will jeopardize DCI's ability to boast about record-breaking attendance at regionals. The same would be true if a single venue had two different shows in the same season. Gotta keep their options limited if you want to keep shaking all the nickels and dimes out of their trousers.

Indeed, a lot of talk, and a lot of exaggeration. If as many people didn't honor their pledge as this lot are claiming, then PBS would have gone off the air right alongside finals. Now come the backtracking excuses.

SCV Alumni

Another thing to consider before you decide to throw someone over the rails for taking your seat is that there are plenty of empty seats right down front in the first 15 rows between the 35s that no one wants to sit in anymore because of all the speaker feedback. Pretty good seats if you want to watch the front ensemble emote, however. Something to think about before you inadvertently escalate a situation that could have easily been avoided.

I corresponded with Chris last week, and they're also working over the next few months to add a lot of new photos sent to them from vets.

As much as I'd like to hear actual music on the field today, I do sort of wonder if it wouldn't end up sounding like a Phillip Glass arrangement after being filtered through the design-by-committee process of modern corps. I'm reminded of any number of those "_____corps modernized" videos on YouTube, and I'm sure there's one for 88 Scouts.

Exactly, Everything else you typed is the result of that sentence alone. If I was part of the CJ here dogging on anyone who spoke out against the overbearing changes, you'd think it's all in good fun (which you have exhibited time and time and time again on here). But because I'm not, you're trying to label me as "the bad guy". You're only "insulted" because I disagree, fundamentally and emphatically, with essentially every single word you type. Not having it. You tell me WHY it's necessary for corps to wear skintight leotards. You tell me WHY it's so great for the activity to have the horns and drums sidelined for synthesizers and singers. You tell me WHY scatter drill and dancing from form to form is the way forward. That's the point of this discussion. Not to sit around and complain about how insulted you feel about ideas that don't align with your own.

It's not sustainable. They cannot continue to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars per years on an arms race to see how much more crazy crap they can do than all the other corps for G.E. points. It has escalated well beyond the point of ridiculousness. Corps have forgotten not only where they came from, but who they are now, and they have absolutely no idea where they're going. Every corps looks and sounds exactly the same now, with no means of identification beyond Brandt Crocker's announcement and the over-produced hype video that plays on the jumbotron. They have GOT to stop spending so much money on props, costumes, electronics, and consultants. They can't keep asking more and more from corporate sponsors like they're doing today just to be competitive. The bubble IS going to burst, unless they scale back and reel themselves in. It shouldn't take millions upon millions of dollars to field a corps in the 21st century, any more than it should take a staff that is nearly 1/2 the size of the corps to teach them how to play and march. They're wasting money on things that are driving people away from the activity. No, those people being driven away aren't here at this very moment to corroborate the previous sentence, but that doesn't mean they don't exist, nor does that mean you shouldn't be concerned for the loss of their support. The naysayers on here are trying to make it a question of what I do or don't like. But that's not the question, at all. It's a question of how much longer can DCI survive like this. The frivolous and needless expenses are DISPROPORTIONATE to the growth. No one in their right mind could possibly believe that it's sustainable. But, as evidenced by the hive-mind on this message board.....there's not a lot of thinking at all going on in the activity today (not an insult, there is ample evidence in this thread alone that proves this is abundantly true). Sure, I'd love to see corps on the field in uniforms, playing bugles, spinning rifles and staying on their feat for the entire production, marching drill instead of dancing, and treating drum corps with the respect it deserves. But I know DCI doesn't want to go back there. All I'm saying is that it would be nice for fans (and, more importantly, performers) to have a wider choice of styles beyond "Whatever last years's champion is doing". And if that's not going to happen, then I would really like for DCI to acknowledge that the activity is no longer drum corps, and to change its name to something more appropriate to what it actually is. "Summer Guard International", "Fine Arts International", whatever. Just call a spade a spade, and quit pretending to be something they stopped being almost two decades ago. At that point, they can dance and amplify and distort and roll around and wear figure skating outfits all they want to. The day they stop dishonoring the drum corps activity, one way or the other, I'd be satisfied. However, more and more it feels like that day will only come when DCI files bankruptcy. Not even I want that. But if they continue down the road they're on today.....that's the only logical outcome.

Wrong. You're attempting to counter my arguments with non-arguments. Let's define "insult". "speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse." Being small-minded is a human condition. It's not an insult. And instead of trying to use that as a threat to cajole me into silence, it might make more sense to try to figure out why being called small-minded is such a button-pusher with you guys, and why it causes you to instantly lash out and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's true. Furthermore, it's not an insult to point out that kids in corps today are wearing color guard outfits. They ARE color guard outfits. They're spandex leotards, and they look ridiculous. That's not an insult. That's apparent to every single objective member of the drum corps community who doesn't have their head buried in George Hopkins' sandbox. It's not an insult to point out that they're there to march and play, and not to dance or roll around. It shouldn't cost $4,000.00 a year to dance and roll around on a football field....in leotards. These aren't insults. They're common sense. You're only labeling them as "insults" because I'm striking a nerve. A nerve which, deep down, is telling you that I'm right. And you don't like, not one bit. I don't care. I want you to not like that. I WANT you to come to terms with what you've helped bring into being. I want you to wake up, open your eyes, look on the field and listen to the mess out there and say "What have I done?". THAT is the only way forward for drum corps. Opening our eyes and ears and saying "Ok, we've gone too far. We need to scale this back, before we destroy ourselves". I will treat those who treat ME with respect in like kind. You lot don't do that here. You lot have NEVER done that. When someone disagrees with you, you do precisely what oldcadetscorps and stu have been doing for pages and pages. You talk bollocks and make personal attacks. You won't do that to me and expect any level of respect from my end. So stop trying to invent insults just because you aren't comfortable with what I'm saying. Trust me, I can think of some actual insults that would make your ancestors cry. But I won't give you the satisfaction. My business is with drum corps, where it's been, where it is, and where it's going. Not with hive-mind trolls. And guys, if you don't want to be labelled by me as a troll......then stop acting like one. Let's talk about the issues, instead. Otherwise, get ignored.

And there's YOUR one note. Love it or leave it. No. I'll love it AND despise what it's allowing people like you to turn it into. And I'll fight to stop it. I may lose. But at least I will have fought, and not allowed small-minded people to prevent me from standing up for what I firmly believe in.

Aye, that's what a lot of folks said about amplification in 2005, when some accurately predicted that it would get wildly out of hand. And now it is. I mean, do you honestly think it's going to plateau with singing, vocoders, synthesized tubas, and reciting poetry into speakers dialed up to 11? If someone doesn't reign these groups in, it's just going to get more out of control, more costly to participate or watch, and more ridiculous.

So you wouldn't change your name to "Kentucky Fried Oreo Cakes" and continue instead to pretend to be something you are not?

So because they're not here, they don't exist? That's really narrow-minded. OF COURSE they're not here. They gave up on you. They gave up on the activity. You lot ran most of them off years ago with your incessant trolling and hive mind mentality. That doesn't change the fact that they exist. Eliminating bugles was an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative. Adding microphones and speakers was an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative. Ditching uniforms for leotards has proven to be an EXTREMELY unpopular initiative. You guys REALLY need to step outside your insular bubble and take note of what is happening outside it. They're out there, and they're tired of even trying to get through to you, or to DCI. They make fun of the activity now, and of how camp it has become. Me? I simply haven't given up on it yet. And if the day comes when I decide to do so, it will be on MY terms, not on the terms of a group of trolls on a message board who have insulated themselves with like minds, none of whom can handle dissenting opinions. Growing attendance and ticket sales mean bugger-all if they can't keep up with the escalating costs of DCI's arms race of frivolous and needless props and electronics...not to mention tour fees that only the most privileged kids with the biggest trust funds can afford. You can't claim that DCI is growing when it's only catering to those willing to shell out the growing expense to watch and/or participate in the activity. Of course revenue is up....IT COSTS MORE. I firmly believe that drum corps can be saved from its own stupidity. I may be totally mistaken in that it can, but that's how much I care about the activity. And I will continue to speak out for rational thought, common sense, and temperance among a group that has abandoned all that for decadent excess and frivolity, whether that group likes it or not.

I've been lurking here for years, and I've already pretty much identified the ones who were NEVER going to give me a chance before I even posted. And largely, I was right. I haven't liked what he (and his team of sunshine pumpers) have been saying for years, but I gave them all a chance to discuss these issues. As evidenced by their flames and refusal to discuss anything in turn, they decided not to give me a chance. That's on them. But like I've said, I'm not here to change their minds. I'm here to add a different viewpoint, one shared by lots of people who wrote drum corps off 17 years ago, and whose "wild" predictions about where the activity was headed have turned out to be entirely accurate. And I'm not the only one here who feels the way I do. I've taken the time to outline and detail my thoughts and concerns. All they've taken the time to do is troll. End of story.

There certainly are. Like cheerleading, drum corps is moving towards recorded jock-jams piped into the stadium. The fruit's of WGI's labors are ripening...

It won't. It's already on the road to "theatrical sport", akin to college cheerleader competitions. But hey, at least those get shown on ESPN.

See? It's so easy to identify to people who have had been complicit in the dilution of this activity. Your refusal to listen to those all around you who have been saying "This isn't right, this shouldn't be happening" for the past 17 years, coupled with your refusal to afford someone the courtesy of reading their thoughts on the subject, acting instead like a 12 year-old internet troll, that tells me precisely how closed-minded and vapid you are. Fine, I'd rather know that now than later. I'm not here to jump in the circle and scream along with you in your little echo chamber. I'm here to voice the opinions and thoughts of a growing number of THOUSANDS of drum corps fans who have already written you off. I don't care if you like it. I don't care if you approve of it. I don't even care if you read a single word I type. But if you're not going to........then you have absolutely no business replying. Because when you do so, you don't have a leg to stand on. All you are is a troll, and everyone who isn't in your little group of sunshine pumpers will recognize and label you as such.

You think I care if you're "disgusted" at any thing I say? You and this echo chamber of sycophants are part of the problem, and your input isn't as valuable to me as I think you probably would like it be. I don't care if you've been a supporter for 40 years....you bought in to the snake oil, and you sold out. And now, drum corps doesn't exist anymore. That's partly YOUR fault. Don't talk to me about being disgusted. You can't hold a candle to the disgust I feel towards those of you who actively allowed and praised the sweeping changes that have devolved this activity into the artistically bankrupt mess it is today. And whether you like it or not, I will fight tooth and nail to express my thoughts right alongside the CJ you folks have cultivated.

The anecdotes described throughout this thread either means 1). There is a high level of inconsistency among different venues in how seat poaching is handled, or 2). There are a lot of liars posting on this message board. I feel it's probably a mix of both. However, I have seen plenty of seat poaching, rude behavior from both kids and corps staff AS WELL AS self-righteous ticket holders (I mean, if you boast about how your plan is to throw a 14 year old kid over the rails because they don't move when someone who is not their parent or guardian demands they move, you're not exactly standing on any moral high ground), and honest misunderstandings that have escalated into fisticuffs as a result of bad attitudes. Sit where you're supposed to sit, or expect to be told to move. And if someone is sitting in your seat, use your brain before you act. Everyone wins, right?

I'll concede that those involved in the activity at the performance level have been indoctrinated into thinking "this is fine". I mean, it's all some of them know. But this echo chamber doesn't get to revise history, nor to pretend like 100% of ticket holders are satisfied with what they're seeing or hearing. I'd put it closer to 50%, but you wouldn't dream of letting that slide, would you? Even the diehard fanboys are becoming disenchanted with the arms race (and that's THEIR term for it, not mine....my term for it is "self-indulgent garbage"). At any rate, competition is certainly an important aspect of the activity, but not at the expense of what the activity claims to stand for.

I read your comment, and what I'm telling you is that Pro stadium staff don't mess around, and they WILL give you business whether you're belligerent or not. You're a visitor on their turf, and most of them hate their jobs. They're not going to take any crap. And it's not unheard of to get someone like that at a drum corps show. I mean, I THOUGHT this was common knowledge, especially among the well-traveled and even more especially among drum corps fans. However, I forget that this is the internet, and that I could very well be talking to individuals that have never even actually been to a drum corps show in their lives.

At any rate, there's been SOME good discussion in this thread, and despite the multiple attempts by the same handful of people to derail it, I hope we can continue that discussion.