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I believe..... 1) There should be an ensemble judge 2) The field judge should not be in the stands BUT.......... If there is an ensemble judge- does that mean the field judge would have to be on the field all the time??

In Cadets when we used Evans the metal rim would pull away from the rest of the head- they would still work but the head itself would be falling apart. It also took forever to find out what combination of foam would make the drums sound decent from the front sideline. - They sounded ok from up front but they sounded like crap from up close. They were very dead and thuddy sounding. To our normal standards they sounded like BD's drums not cranked as high as they go. It sounded bad from up front. Maybe I'm just used to Remo's with some foam caulked to the outside but thats the way to go in my opinion.

Well..........we could have 11 1/2 minutes of whole and half notes only, and it would be the cleanest thing out there. Kinda defeats the purpose, doesn't it? So basically you are describing Cavaliers horn book from 2002! J/K We already resolved this issue- please look above. Having a good book with lots of style changes and musical phrasing also helps. What I believe though is that the top 4 maybe 5 drumlines demand are all about the same. Each line has different parts of their show which are very demanding either physically, musically, or ensembly. So basically by finals week the judge really is just picking the cleanest line for the top spot that night.

I'm telling you that roll was dirty- they were right in the front with nothing else going on.

How about Fred Sanford is dead. RIP. That definetly contradicts the fact that he will be a "consultant."

The Cadets are getting drums every year now. So they are selling the drums. The Cadets actually have to buy all of their pit equipment at price and they're selling that stuff as well.

Pearls bass drums are definetly superior. They have the perfect number of air holes. Yamaha and premier definetly do not have enough air holes so all the air gets trapped inside the drum and its not loud at all. Thats why the scouts cut holes in the bottom of their drums. And of course the deep shell tenors are also a cut above the rest in terms of sound.

What's wrong with their pearl drums other than they are a little crooked.=) Are they going back to match grip? What is it?

That has nothing to do with what this topic is about. I saw Tori chopping out by SCV's truck after a show. She was good! I was impressed!

It's definetly not the "cleanest line wins". Being the cleanest gets you points in technique and execution, but you need to have a musical book as well. One thing that has helped the Cadets the past few years has also been the style changes they have used. It's impressive to a judge when a drumline can play in 3 or 4 differents styles throughout one show. It all factors in.

In BD 95- that roll was definetly not clean.

Sorry to break up this love fest that this has turned into but FYI- There are now BD clips on the Vicfirth site under the education pull down menu!

What the Cadets do= Use a whitemax on top and a clear plastic Remo head on bottom. Crank the top and the bottom head pretty tightly. Then wrap up a napkin and tape it to the bottom head. The Cadets also only use 7 strands of snares instead of the 14 that come with the Yamaha drums. It took alot of playing around to find the right tension for the snares on the drums though. Heres a secret though- If you play clean- the judges will think the tuning sounds great!! It works every time.

How about Timp. not Tymp- there is no such thing as tymp!

The Cadets always have the best Ballads. Ex. 01, 99, 98, 87, 96, 95, 94, 93, 91, etc.

I've heard both- Detuning the heads if you don't use them for a while doesn't affect the heads too much but it does put extra tension on the shell of drum. I've never detune any drums because we get new drums every few years, but if you're looking for longevity with these drums loosening the heads wouldn't be a bad idea.

The Tom Augnst have a great feel to them. I used to use the Floats as well.

Flammaster I am blown away by you saying that Cadets don't play any flams or anything but diddles. Please look closer at their book. It is extremely dense and full of flams(even in the bass writing!) And to be more specific for you how about this. Go to Vicfirth.com and look at the clips again. Let's start with clip 2- there are a number of hand to hand flam patterns 1/4 into the video in eighth duration. After the drum solo when it drops down to just the bass line the tenors and then snares enter with flam patterns and sixteenth not flam five patterns. This is RPH which admittedly contained more rolls and fast sixteenth notes than the rest to keep the flow of the piece moving at a quick pace. Moving on to clip 3- As soon as the snares enter with their feature they play flam five patterns with the left hand in sixteenth note form. As soon as the whole battery enters the ensemble has flam rudiments like crazy spread out through the entire section. It is not one big flam fest to see how many flams they can fit in a bar like BD does but there is a mixture of cheezes flam fives and flam drags everywhere. This section climaxs after the two bars of straight eighth notes into the drum solo. This is where the ENTIRE battery including the tenors and bass play 2 bars of cheeze ta chettas all off the right hand and then 1 off the left at the end followed by the fast rolls and quarter note triplet ending. It then picks up again and there are flams interspresed among the parts. Then there is a ritardando and the tempo starts over with a bar of rolls and then a bar of flams repeated. There is also a flam passage right towards the end. Clip 4- Tenors play the feature with the triplet based flams. Then the whole battery plays the feature with the messed up rythms at the end. In that feature the snares and tenors play hand flams in triplet form. Then it goes to the groove where there are alot of roll patterns until the third phrase where the snares step out and play a feature. This feature contains 2 beats of Flam drags followed by inverted flam taps and then 3 r handed flams in a row. Then the bar has 2 beats of flam fives and then some singles on the last two beats. I hope this clears up the confusion about the Cadets book. If you like I can give you a flam count and tell you exactly how many flams they do play. You also must realize that flams are a basic part of the Cadets book. They are spread throughout the entire thing. Flams are not used as a "WOW look at that snare feature they're playing alot of flams" tool. They play flams all the time not just to make features more diffucult like BD does.

CADETS- Hard book with hard drill that is physically demanding not just flashy.

BD over anyone is #### right! They were hot and ON finals night. Barely any fuzz this year compared to last year. I would've put them in first finals night. I think the judges would and did disagree with that statement. BD plays alot more than just drum solos that you can here from anywhere in the stands. Their hornline covers them up alot so who knows how they sounded under all the horn parts. Oh wait the judges do!

Cadets 89 and 93

Cavaliers use Innovative sticks and mallets- therefore they are not on the Vicfirth sticks and mallets site.

Whats more likely to have occured than a judging consipiracy? Cadets guard had their worst perfomance of the three nights on Quarters, had a great show on Semis, and almost as good as Semis show on Finals night. Why is it always the judges fault? Anyways, to get back on topic....I would have liked to see BD take drums...but I trust the judges! Actually the color guard on Quarter finals hates YEA but especially the Cadets. She put Cadets in 5th and Crossmen in 15th on quarters! She was the judge that George Hopkins did not want on the panel because he knew she was going to dump the Cadets, and she did ruining all chances at the Cadets winning guard. This is the incident where George got a penalty and could not enter the stadium on quarter finals because of it. So in this case it was the judges fault. But I agree with you in that MOST of the time I agree with the judges.

Something I have learned over the years about judging- If finals week- judges decisions are unamious then you should probably just accept it because its most likely the right decision i.e. Cadets perc in 2003 OR Cavies perc in 2000. As much as I thought Cadets should've had the trophy in 2000 I've accepted the fact that they lost because ALL of the judges said they did. Now in something like this year with Cadets guard- they came in 5th on quarters, 1st on semis, and 2nd on Finals. That tells me that something weird with the judges was obviously going on and that there was some controversy behind it. P.S. There are many perc judges that know what they're talking about- like Charlie Poole, Alan Christianson, Marty Griffin, Jeff Prosperie, Glen Fugett, and they are many more that are qualified and know how to judge and make good decisions.

:usa: Couldn't have put it Better myself! Sorry I'm not impressed with what Cadets are playing. period (what no Flam Rudiments)? up until 1983 you got points for the Content of your Book! Hence all the Great lines of Days gone by. No flam rudiments? Wow! Have you watched the Vic Firth in the lot videos? You must not know what flam rudiments look or sound like because you were only a timpani player for BD back in the 70's. I see that you don't like what the cadets play but do you really have to put them down every chance you get? It's getting old.