Morgoth Bauglir

That about sums it up. I marched a corps that performed very early in te day in 02. And I remember everytime I saw the Cadets show that season, it seemed like they had added something else that was wayyy too tack and just took away from the actual show. Cavies may have won DCI that year, but Cadets should have won Grand Nationals with that show. :P

Oh man, PC's gettin burned left and right. Anyways, I too live in MI and i missed teaching camp because of it being so early. So i for one think this is a good idea.

But there is a ton of disagreement on what is a good design and what is not. But famous and respected staff members are accepted as such by just about everyone. I can't believe how many people think the reputation of a corps doesnt get them points by themselves. Are you kidding me? First, the judges have to because they have to leave room for later in the night. Every judges knows the scores from the previous year and years before that, so they know about how good a corps is going to be. When I took a year off in 04 and actually watched shows, I went to 3 of the first shows of the season in the michigan-ohio are. And I noticed as I am sure others have; the first few shows are TERRIBLE. But we still have coprs like cavies and BD placing way way abouve corps like glassmen, bluecoats, boston, ect. Are they really that much better? At that point, no. But wheras a judge thinks that it's just early or they are having an off night for a corps like cavies, for a lower placing corps, it is just expected. If I put Southwind(no offense to S-dub, it's the first corps I thought of) in SCVs unis and had them perform their show under the guise of being SCV, I guaruntee they would get a higher score thatn if they did the same show the same night with as themselves. It's simple psycology. When a judge sees a group succeed year after year, it becomes the norm. They have nothing to prove. So mistakes are just subconciously overlooked. BUt a lower place corps need to be twice as good just to be taken seriously. Anyone who doesn't see that has not been to enough shows, and enough early shows for that matter.

Are you joking? I know they are not over the top like say, Cadets 02, but to say they have ZERO cheesy moments is a stretch.

I can't agree with that. The tenor dance. I will add Glassmen 99 or even Glassmen 98-01

To me, it would have been just as bad. I thought Boston's narration was terrible as was Crown's singing. I also thought that the rapping and drumspeak in Cadet's show was the worst part and actually ruins the show for me. I FF past it every single time I listen to it. I just can't help but feel embarrased for the people who have to sing or speak those parts. Even in WGI where sining or narration has been allowed for years, it is still pretty stupid. I can think of maybe 1 or 2 shows with narration in about the 100 I have heard where it doesnt detract from the show or distract the audience. On a side note, in WGI there were quite a few shows when narration was a huge deal, where the narration was the show. The show concept was so shaky that it actually had to be explained to the audiece during the show for it to make sense. I hope that doenst happen in DCI, but it probably will. Just as WGI staffs had to learn the hard way what doesnt work, so will corps staffs.

I wasn't trying to say that. But the original post does seem tio imply to me that everyone who goes to the camp would jump at the chance of being offered a spot in the Cadets, only marching Crossmen to gain experiance. I was saying that there are in fact a great number of people who just don't want to march Cadets, no matter if they could make it or not. And I don't mean to paint with too broad of a paintbrush here, but from my observations, the people who audtion for a whole bunch of corps and pick the highest placed one they can make are usually the same people who are in fact, looking for a ring. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Believe it or not, there are people who don't like the Cadets style and just don't want to march there. Same with Crossmen. Not everyone is looking for a ring.

I also have no problem with Firefox

i vted for BD. While I do like Phantoms opener more than any particular song in BD's show, the rest of PRs show just strikes me as average. But BD's whole show works as a package. But my main reason for voting for BD is because their drumline actually played a lot of notes throughout the whole show. And it was clean. Phantom was clean, when they played, but that was not often.

I know, I have pyware. I find however that giving kids all the information instead of having them write it down and figure it out themselves makes it a lot harder for them to remember.

Actually, last summer, and I am sure at a lot of other corps as well, our dot books had to have as much information and more as in that photo. Dot counts crossing counts bar numbers page number rehearsal marks picture of drill with yardlines and hashes dress point listening point step size interval

Agreed. I can't really think of anyone from last year who wanted to be in Cadets more than Crossmen. I am sure there are a few, but that is the case in any drum corps. I know a guy who marched SCV and then went to Glassmen. And another guy who marched Phantom Blucoats, Glassmen and Blue Devils. I in fact marched Kiwanis, Glassmen and Crossmen. But just as the vast majority of members are not there just to move around, it is the same at the Crossmen, and the Cadets. They are with that corps because they want to be there. And to put it lightly, anyone who pictures the Crossmen as a bunch of kids fawning over the top 5, or the Cadets, is gravely mistaken.

I hope so. Most of the drummers who plan on coming back say they want to because of Darren and Zack. From what I hear, all 5 tenors want to come back and 5 or 6 snares. I don't know about basses or cyms. But Darren and Zack(snare tech), and Damon(pit tech) made the summer the fun it was.

I've got one. The cymbal voice can be effectivly covered by the pit.

I'm confused.

Well I can't speak for everyone, but I was at some of the camps both last year and the year before. I spoke to a number of vets. Quite a few of them in fact did not come back because of the grip change. So that would cause the drumline to be rookies, and thus the 10th place. I'm not saying it was the sole reason. But it is illogical to think that the switch did not affect their drum score and overall score negatively. It did.

Tis, but that would take too long. I am gonna end up buying the cd anyways, but I kinda need to get a copy of the original really soon.

I know this may be against forum rules, so just get rid of this if you think it's malevolent. I wondering if anyone here has an mp3 of the song Stained Glass by David Gillingham. I am lookng to possibly arange it for a winter line. I know the song is awesome, but the other guys on staff have not heard the original and I cannot find it anywhere. If I order the CD online it will be long past when we are supposed to have our songs picked out for the show. So I am wondering if anyone happens to have a recording(other than scv 2000) of all 3 movements, or just Cathedrals. I don't mean this post in any theft-oriented manner. I intend on buying the score if I can convince the other guys on staff that we should do this piece.

So a winter line I teach is doing a show based on disonance. Do any of you know any songs or composers, band literature or any genre for that matter, that would fit this theme? I'm currently looking at some David Gillingham peices, for their aggressive qualities, but they don't quite have that un-hinged feel I am looking for. In the show we were thinking about musical and visual passages going from cohesive normal chords and forms, to a twisted shattered, Bizzaro-Universe feel, and then back again. Anyone know any songs that would be able to accomplish this pretty well? Matt, you and I have pretty much identical tastes in everything :P Know anything I would like?

I don't know about guard, but that is very unlikely in percussion. Even the top Scholastic World groups like Centerville or Avon would get stomped by groups like RX, Mystique or NorthCoast. Listing one or two examples of scholastic lines or guards that might be able to hold their own against a few independant world groups hardly represents the norm of the activty. Putting a high school ensemble against a college age ensemble would be completely unfair.

When most kids pick up sticks for the first time in middle school band class, they learn match grip.

Well, not exactly. Match is for level drums, traditional is for tilted drums. Most drummers learned on level drums, so they learned match. Also because it is easier. So we associate that with being childish. But it really isn't that bad, it just looks hokey for all of us that are used to seeing lines playing trad. So I am for the change. But I have nothin against match grip itself. Just the bad image it gives the line.

It doesnt have to be comprehensive. Thousands of schools have indoor lines and guards, and they are fine playing by WGIs restrictions. No one is saying that this would have to replace a marching band program. And that is where WWs can stay. And since when is marching band or even band in general required? I have never seen a band program that was not an elective course. It's prepostorous to even consider this would be required in the first place. Again, I don't know of any marching bands, concert bands or indoor lines that are required. And for this to work it would have to be the combination of more than one school. School sizes vary tremendously. And because of that, you are going to have differnt amounts of people who are interested from each one. Centerville is big enough to have 2 scholastic winter lines, PSO and PSW. But most school barely have enough kids who are interested to field 1 PSA line. I cannot see any 1 school being able to get even 50 kids who are willing to do a summer drum corps.

I don;t think allowing WWs would be required. There are scholastic and independant WGI drumlines and guards, but there are no equipment differences between the 2 divisions. I see nothing wrong with scholastic corps competeing against other scholastic corps. Most schools already have marching bands, they don't need 2. As for the kids who want to compete but play WWs, learna new instrument. A fairly large portion of kids in scholastic lines do in fact play other instruments in band and marching band. In my line alone I have 2 bass drummers, 3 cymbals, and 5 pit players that all play non percussion instruments in band. I know it is similar in other lines from talking to other techs and members. I still maintain that there is nothing wrong with having different activities with different rules. And that if you want to be in one of those activites, you need to fit in the rules, not try to change them. As for the topic itself, this might work. But keep in mind the expenses of even the smallest of Div III corps. Would most schools be able to handle that. Even with district funding, many indoor lines have to have to have their kids pay 200-300+ in dues just to break even. Staff, floors, copyrights, janitor time for after hours rehearsals, circuit fees, ect all cost money. And that is miniscule compared to a touring drum corps. I think that even if supported by a school, the cost would be a prohibitive factor for most kids and their schools.