sneakypete Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Piper - I'm not being elitist when I say drum corps is an art form. ask the designers and judges if what they are working on and criticizing is an art form or not. Ask the boards who are spending thousands on show designs if it's an art form or not. As much as some would like to think this activity is no longer tradition-based -- it's creativity-based. The higher the creativity the higher the art form. SnPt an arts booster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) IMO, neither drum corps nor color guard are art forms. They do have elements of creativity, yes. But to me, that's like calling figure skating, gymnastics or synchronized swimming art forms. All have elements of creativity, and all incorporate other art forms (dance, music, etc.). But, in the end, they are sports/athletic endeavors with creative elements. IMO, they don't fall within the parameters of an art form . . . no matter what the judges say. Edited July 20, 2007 by byline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Music is an art form...dance and choreography are art forms...marching is not, but it could be viewed a choreography. So art form + art form + pseudo art form = triple art form!!!! Math proves this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slamt3 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) and how much do you miss those crass '70s hornlines? NEXT QUESTION :P Well, I do .... but the shows that these kids are performing these days absolutely fascinate me. I marched in the 70s and early 80s and loved it. It has changed alot but I have much respect for the corps today. I watch them tobe entertained, to go back to my youth, to be around "drum corps people", its a place I`m comfortable and always welcome. I try not to critique the corps and I think that is why I do enjoy them. I will only get to see one show this year, Finals and what I will do is spend most of my time watching drumlines warming up outside the stadium. What they do today is amazing ........ This DCI will probably be my last, but I get to relive the magic, one last time as a performer in the KAC at semi`s (with that HUGE crass hornline) and crisp color guard and do some Drummin of my own "old school".... Saturday night is for the youth. They will absolutely shine, I am sure and I will be entertained and enjoy myself. The spirit of Drum Corps is still there for me anyway..the approach has changed over the years. I will still probably enjoy the activity in 30 years when the laser light shows and pyrotechnics take over,,,, but thats just me Edited July 20, 2007 by slamt3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakypete Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 IMO, neither drum corps nor color guard are art forms. They do have elements of creativity, yes. But to me, that's like calling figure skating, gymnastics or synchronized swimming art forms. All have elements of creativity, and all incorporate other art forms (dance, music, etc.). But, in the end, they are sports/athletic endeavors with creative elements. IMO, they don't fall within the parameters of an art form . . . no matter what the judges say. I'm sure others have made this comparison in the past - but in my opinion drum corps can not be considered a sport the way other artistic /thletic activities can be considered sports -- ie gymnastics -- In gymnastics it is understood that the primary audience is the judge and there is a very structured, finite number of athletic/artistic executables available to the performer. If they put their routine together and perform it nicely we can say one performer was better than another performer. In drum corps the artistic variations are infinite - these artistic expressions are supposed to be measured by a judge. The stakes are too high to not design carefully and specifically to the judges artistic tastes and preferences. So you can see that the real audience that matters to the survival of a drum corps is the judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) I'm sure others have made this comparison in the past - but in my opinion drum corps can not be considered a sport the way other artistic /thletic activities can be considered sports -- ie gymnastics --In gymnastics it is understood that the primary audience is the judge and there is a very structured, finite number of athletic/artistic executables available to the performer. If they put their routine together and perform it nicely we can say one performer was better than another performer. In drum corps the artistic variations are infinite - these artistic expressions are supposed to be measured by a judge. The stakes are too high to not design carefully and specifically to the judges artistic tastes and preferences. So you can see that the real audience that matters to the survival of a drum corps is the judge. Agreed. I would compare drum corps to something more along the lines of a broadway musical, with a brass choir replacing the human choir, and marching/spinning replacing the dancing. slamt3's post made me think of something though. This really boils down to what you like about drum corps. I know what I like about it: the precision of 135 doing something mind-blowingly difficult and doing it almost perfectly. That's why I love modern corps, and as long as the shows keep getting harder and the execution keeps getting better (or even if they stay at this level), I will love this activity. EDIT: By the way, I don't like musicals at all and I am in no way trying to equate drum corps with them. It was just a comparison of the elements that compose the two. Edited July 20, 2007 by Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
^Michael^ Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I'll second that ! Now you can become as neurotic, irrational,contentious,and off the wall as the rest of us.... HEY! I resemble that remark! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) I'm sure others have made this comparison in the past - but in my opinion drum corps can not be considered a sport the way other artistic /thletic activities can be considered sports -- ie gymnastics -- IMO, drum corps is neither a sport nor an art form, but a sort of pseudo-amalgamation of both. A more appropriate comparison would be with figure skating. Certainly, the judges are their primary audience, but why would figure skaters put crowd-pleasing elements into their programs if the audience is a non-factor? It's pretty much the same with drum corps and/or color guard. The fact that they are judged much like figure skating, gymnastics and synchronized swimming puts them in the same category as subjectively judged sports, yet mainly because of the music-performance element, drum corps doesn't fit into that category, either. For me, the more accurate term is discipline. Music, dance, painting and writing are all art forms. Aside from those are distinct disciplines which integrate various art forms into their competitive/performance framework. But I don't consider those disciplines to be necessarily art forms, in and of themselves. To illustrate this: I consider much of what Torvill & Dean did to be artistic expression, in much the way a ballet would be artistic expression. But that doesn't mean I consider all ice dancing -- or all figure skating, for that matter -- an art form. There's a whole lot that happens within those disciplines that isn't very artistic. I taught and judged guard for 14 years, and wrote some guard books that I'm proud of. But I would never call what I did an art form. There was plenty of creativity, yes. But I don't see it being a true art form . . . again, no matter what the judges say. I believe that sometimes we like to elevate whatever it is that we do, and we end up believing our own press. Edited July 20, 2007 by byline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryMorgan Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) and how much do you miss those crass '70s hornlines :P Man I miss those '70's hornlines... But I loves those 07 (anagram moment) hornlines..especially one equestrian inspiried. Yes the activity has changed, but the pursuit of excellence in the craft is the same now as it was 30 years ago. How many people who bought homes 30 years ago have replaced their avacado green appliances with new sleek stainless steel? Both appliances did the same job, but just in a different package. Edited July 20, 2007 by BarryMorgan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossroads Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Really, then, why bother saying you're playing "x"....just make everything "inspired by" or "ode to". People enjoy having certain point of reference they are familiar with...it's why people like Crown so much this year. Not because it's "unique"...very few drum corps shows are that. Most are a smash-up of other peoples ideas, songs and drill moves...and because of that, there are certain expectations that we have. That's just the corner DCI show design has painted itself into over the years..."we'll play these pieces you know...but arrange them so you have to hunt for them". :P Maybe, as you stated in another thread...we should have corps doing singular pieces to create a more cohesive whole in the design scheme we find ourselves in nowadays (it would work a lot better, IMO, in trying to capture a theme or thought process, to let artistic nuance be explored rather than GAK GAK!- horns play staccato stab-GAK...GAK! GAK!)... 11 minutes of Adams, Glass, Brubeck, Miles Davis, etc might fit better than playing eight bars of twenty different songs. mmm, I'm thinking back to the year that Phantom played "Variations on a Theme of Paganinni: Var. 19" in 95 (I believe). If they had made that unrecognizeable, whould that have made it's name "Music inspired by Variations on a Theme of Paganinni: Var. 19" arr. by whoever of Phamtom... ? Also, one of my fav. shows of all time is Cadet's 93 "In the Springtime when the Kings go of to War" (a quote from the NIV Bible I found out later). If I'm not mistaken, that was commissioned by Cadets from Holsinger (with the exception of "On a Hymnsong of Phillip Bliss" which is actually the Hymn "It is Well" which I don't think was a part of the comissioned work, but was added later). A lot of corps are doing things like that. Hiring people to write original music for the corps. \ Correct me if i'm wrong!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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