Booing and the Cadets

[IRMO]

How long before someone comes here and starts telling us we're evil for not applauding simply cause the kids tried hard?

Since spotting evil is usually your role I think we're safe. ^0^

So again while I wouldnt have booed if I was there, I certainly would have shook my head watching Hopkins make a jackass out of himself with Dan Acheson, a guy who has been a willing accomplice in his changing the activity at a fundamental level.

There ya go....such a judgement even after he's stated Hopkins acted respectful.

[CrunchyTenor]

Garry,

You have GOT to be kidding in trying to compare the high velocity drills of today to the 70's.

OK, Mike, let's clarify things then. Is it the velocity of the drills that make them unsafe, or the presence or lack of hash-marks? And Cadets were booking in 1984, too, when they crashed and burned WITH hash-marks. I guess that means velocity and hash-marks are independent entities, and either way woudn't really have affected Cadets performance Thursday night.

I would think that symmetrical drills would have more of a demand for complete field markings than form-driven assymetrical drill, yet they were performed with a minimum of markings.

And, yes, I can make a comparison because I've done both. After several thousand reps through the drill, in sections and run-throughs, I would think field markings become less important. By finals it should be on auto-pilot.

Garry in Vegas

[^Michael^]

<snip misc BS>

I don't think you saw this little exchange, did you? I know what I saw, and what I saw is not reflected in that first snippet above. The truth shall set you free :)

I was there, as well. In addition, I personally talked to both George and Dan. What I witnessed with my own eyes from section 18, row 30, seat 101, and later heard described by those involved was very different from what you allegedly saw. Indeed; "the truth shall set you free." However, this is where it ends for me because I ascribe to the wisdom of the following quote:

"Don't argue with a fool. The spectators can't tell the difference."

-- Charles J. Nalin

[JimF-LowBari]

Mike, you werent there, you didnt witness it, the crowd didnt boo the Cadets, just their choices that the director made at the time. Many things should have happened that didnt. Ultimately, the lack of communication caused this fiasco. ANd again, the booing had a lot more to do with Hopkins and Cadets programing and the crowds frustration withCadets programing and had nothing to do with the kids. I mean seriously, who on Earth would boo a kid in a corps ??

~G~

How could the members on the field know where the booing was directed?

You're on the field and concentrating on the job ahead. You're not going to take effort away from that to figure what the booing is about. Excuse me... you're not going to take effort to GUESS what the booing is about.

[LAMystreaux]

Since spotting evil is usually your role I think we're safe. ^0^

There ya go....such a judgement even after he's stated Hopkins acted respectful.

Yes, I am finding that for some people who are so clouded with bias, hate, etc. . .no amount of fact will ever change their mind. It's kind of amazing/frustrating all at the same time.

[LAMystreaux]

Mike, you werent there, you didnt witness it, the crowd didnt boo the Cadets, just their choices that the director made at the time. Many things should have happened that didnt. Ultimately, the lack of communication caused this fiasco. ANd again, the booing had a lot more to do with Hopkins and Cadets programing and the crowds frustration withCadets programing and had nothing to do with the kids. I mean seriously, who on Earth would boo a kid in a corps ??

~G~

After four years of marching drum corps, Quarterfinals night 2007 was the worst performance emotionally that I have ever felt. It will stand as my worst drum corps experience, and I hope another corps will never have to go through a performance with what that crowd put us through. It felt horrible and disgusting. I understand after reading these boards a few days after finals, many claim that the boos were directed towards Mr. Hopkins and NOT the corps. BUT, we didnt feel that, nor (at least I) didnt know that. We received those boos as boos towards us. The laughing, the heckling, the obnoxious comments through out the whole show....we felt towards us. And it did negatively impact our performance and we all knew it.

Have you read this, G? Care to recant anything?

[Scerpella]

Yes, I am finding that for some people who are so clouded with bias, hate, etc. . .no amount of fact will ever change their mind. It's kind of amazing/frustrating all at the same time.

I dont know why youd want to make this into a morality issue Mike. I dont hate Hopkins or the Cadets. As for bias, are you telling me you dont have a bias towards Cadets? Youre a fan and youve never made a secret of it, Barb has a daughter who marched Cadets for some years, so lets put aside the idea of bias as irrelevant. We all have them one way or another.

Drum Corps isnt and never has been a self esteem project. You get that from knowing you did your best. But its a competition with winners and losers and scores. Everyone is rooting for his or her favorite.

But heres where Hopkins and his Cadets have changed the equation. Hopkins has a vision for this activity which he has articulated very plainly and forthrightly and for many fans its not what they want. He has been at the forefront of every controversial change for the past 15 years. And he has almost singlehandedly debuted every one of those changes through his programs. Last year his production was controversial to say the least. Informally I would say that most people didnt like it, at least if discussion on drum corps forums is any indication. So does George think think "hmmmmm, people didnt seem to like my narration last year!". Evidently not because he comes back with more of it. The perception among the average drum corps fan who has any sense of the history of the activity is that Hopkins is not concerned with how fans will react to his programs but with pushing new evolutionary ideas onto the field regardless of their favor among fans. But unlike other corps regardless of what he does his corps stays top 5.

So hes not a sympathetic figure, thats fairly clear. Add to that practices that also dont sit well with the average fans, such as his bringing in DCI judges during camps to give him feedback. Talk about gaming the system! Sooner or later there will come a breaking point with usually respectful fans when they become fed up with his antics, which I'm sure is what happened at quarterfinals.

George Hopkins has brought this down on himself and his corps. But from where I sit a second place in DCI wouldnt indicate to me theyve suffered.

[glory]

So if I'm reading this right, there are some of you out there who think that this educated crowd, these aficionados of musical sport should just go away if they dont like the product being presented...

Isn't that the way the market works? Those who like the product buy it. Those who don't don't. By your own admission, you don't go to as many shows as before because you don't like them as much. That's a shame to my mind because I think there's a lot to like. That's how it's supposed to work, however. You perceive less value and so partake less.

It's not necessary - and you apparently agree with this - to take the further step and give voice to your disapproval at the event. Events such as these aren't two-way exchanges between the corps and individual fans. The corps don't perform for you to critique them directly. The right to free speech for those who object to what they see on the field isn't in any way an obligation for them to offer their opinions publicly.

I personally hope that you and others like you will continue to attend and see what I see in the evolution of this activity. If you don't like what you see but nonetheless manage to restrain your impulse to share your disapproval loudly, you'll have my respect. And you'll likewise have my respect if you choose not to return.

Hope to see you next year.

HH

[Scerpella]

Have you read this, G? Care to recant anything?

I'd say this young person should suck it up and celebrate being 2nd place in DCI while there are many young people who didnt have the privilege of being even in the top 12.

[euponitone]

I'd say this young person should suck it up and celebrate being 2nd place in DCI while there are many young people who didnt have the privilege of being even in the top 12.

Care to show me where he didnt do that. Just because he commented on the poor audience reaction, doesnt mean he was whining about 2nd place.