DCI Telecast

[Dale Bari]

How can you look at what DCI allows now and draw the line at amps and narration? Who cares? It hasn't been drum and bugle corps for decades. They call it corps and I'm fine with that. It's not worth an argument. Corps have been shouting and vocalizing in different ways for years, so now they have mics.

Not that it matters a whole lot, but....

I can draw a line at amps because, when corps vocalized before amplification, I was guaranteed no buzzing or crackling to detract from my enjoyment of their show. Sure, there are enough other things to get in the way (planes, trains, noisy fans), but corps don't need to add to it themselves.

I can draw a line at narration because I am not sure how judges are including the quality of the narration, from both composition and excellence standpoints, into the corps' score, like I can quality of playing, marching, and spinning.

Bands have been doing the amp thing for decades now. Heck, my HS band was one of the first in our area to use electronics and synthesizers back in 1985. If DCI wants to obliterate its own uniqueness, who am I to stand in their way? But, there are ways to object to DCI corps' use of equipment, ways that have nothing to do with arguing about what "drum & bugle corps" is or means.

[kevingamin]

I can draw a line at narration because I am not sure how judges are including the quality of the narration, from both composition and excellence standpoints, into the corps' score, like I can quality of playing, marching, and spinning.

If people are willing to put up with cheesy props on the field, which are subject to the elements and can fall down or get in the way of a show, then cheesy narration shouldn't be a problem, either, as it is an audio prop and subject to it's own set of issues.

And there's some stuff that happens in DCA which is just as or more silly as what we've seen in DCI. Heck DCA has prop crews, yet people were ready to crucify DCI for proposing the same thing.

[Dale Bari]

If people are willing to put up with cheesy props on the field, which are subject to the elements and can fall down or get in the way of a show, then cheesy narration shouldn't be a problem, either, as it is an audio prop and subject to it's own set of issues.

And there's some stuff that happens in DCA which is just as or more silly as what we've seen in DCI. Heck DCA has prop crews, yet people were ready to crucify DCI for proposing the same thing.

So, are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?

I'm not sure how a falling prop counts against the corps' score either, but that's not germane to what I was saying. Don't conflate my two arguments contra amps and narration.

I've said nary a word about DCI prop crews. If they want them, they can have 'em. Although, there is a small difference 'tween your DCI and DCA examples: IIRC, DCI wanted to have prop people not count against the size limit. DCA doesn't have this issue, as most corps are not at maximum size. As far as I'm concerned, so long as the limit isn't violated, 10 people could go out and stand in the endzone the whole show. Oh, wait.... :)

Yes, fire extinguishers are the epitome of cheese. DCA could do without them forever. I'm not sure what else at 2007 DCA qualifies as "cheesy".

Edited September 7, 2007 by Dale Bari

[JimF-LowBari]

Yes, fire extinguishers are the epitome of cheese. DCA could do without them forever. I'm not sure what else at 2007 DCA qualifies as "cheesy".

Ahhh, memories of DCA cheese and other things....

Fire extinguishers disguised as riverboat smokestacks. 1974/1975 Yankee Rebels, but at least they were set off in time with the music....

Then there was Uncle Sam on stilts some new corps from Rochester had back in 1985 or so...

And yes Kevin... same corps... same year had an amp with an electric guitar...

And my old corps actually sang a verse of a song while marching in mid 80s. Only time I ever gave a "golf clap" to my old group. <**>

On topic: Telecast was on after my bedtime and totally forgot about it anyway....

Edited September 7, 2007 by JimF-3rdBari

[Cathie Wiener]

Watched the "delayed" broadcast last night.

in general I believe that they have contibuted to the demise of local corps as an activity for kids. So for me it was the first and ONLY time I watch DCI corps. I am NOT a Cadets fan. That being said, I thought the Cadets show was phenominal - and the narration didn't bother me at all because it FIT THE PROGRAM. I know that video isn't the best way to judge a corps, but based on what I saw on the broadcast they should have been on top.

I agree.

After watching the other corps and what DCI has become, I don't understand all the complaining about Cadet narration. I didn't care for the show, but they were good and the narration fit. So if it had to be done, at least it was done well.

G-horns said this was the only part of DCI they watched this year and I'm unsure Martybucs if you've only seen Cadets show from this DCI telecast, but I have to tell you what they showed was the only decent part of the show as far as the narration goes. For the whole show did they play/perform their butts off?... you bet. Did they march their butts off?... you bet. However, the narration became increasingly distracting. The narration you heard in the broadcast was VERY minimal compared to the whole show. There was a good minute or minute and a half without narration and that was amazing. But in the end, there was constant narration without breaks. And, unfortunately, the young man doing that incredibly large chunk of narration made Napoleon Dynamite seem like a scholar. Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the individual personally, I'm making the assumption that he was "directed" in that narration for the final effect, but it was incredibly distracting and poorly done IMO.

Basically, my point is the section of the show shown on the DCI telecast was not a true representation of their use of narration throughout the show and therefore I don't think a decision of whether or not they were good or bad or if you did or did not like their show can really be made off of those few minutes shown on ESPN2.

[donincardona]

What things are DCI corps doing that you group under the term "junk"?

(I'm not arguing the use of the term. I'm just curious at what your objection is aimed.)

i believe what he means by junk is what drum corps has become. it's not drum corps anymore . i don't know what you could call it. it's closer to marching bands which we used to try to stay away from. but it's not even that. all the people invoved in the activity today like the way it's going. that's fine. but the old timers don't like it......it's nothing like when we marched. we will never see eye to eye on this so we should all let this go. we think it's junk. you don't. so be it.

[KeithHall]

As much as I am a fan of the old days...Drum corps has evolved and continues to evolve. I was impressed with what the corps are doing and I don't think it takes away from drum corps whatsoever. People bawked at 2 valves, then three valves, asymetrical drills, dancing color guards, Bb bugles and now amplification. The things that I heard from these corps is better than ever from a bugle, percussion and visual point of view. Amplification as I have heard it is just ornamentation.

May times we hate to evolve...remember NEW MATH (whatever that was)? Change is good. If you add saxes to drum corps then it becomes a band, BUT we are still all brass and percussion right? Enjoy what DCI and DCA offer us every year because it does get better. We may have less corps in the junior ranks but the corps that are still competing are, by far, better than what we had in the 70's.

[WayBackBuc]

i believe what he means by junk is what drum corps has become. it's not drum corps anymore . i don't know what you could call it. it's closer to marching bands which we used to try to stay away from. but it's not even that. all the people invoved in the activity today like the way it's going. that's fine. but the old timers don't like it......it's nothing like when we marched. we will never see eye to eye on this so we should all let this go. we think it's junk. you don't. so be it.

I think we should call it "Super Shiny Extreme Percussion & Brass! <**>

Your right Don,, It **edit**(most of it, not all)**edit** just pain sucks

Edited September 7, 2007 by WayBackBuc

[Dale Bari]

Drum corps has evolved and continues to evolve.

And life has evolved on Earth for billions of years. Now, Man has arrived on the scene. Will you not object when we are "evolved" out of existence like the dinosaurs? Or is that too far-fetched for you?

Not all change is progress, and not all evolutions are positive. Lots of people thought communism was the future of mankind. Now, Marx is less popular than George Hopkins.

You can call a hog a sow all you want, but you still can't milk it. Just because we call it "drum corps" doesn't mean it's the same activity it was in the 70's. And that's not a determination of better or worse, just a statement of fact. It isn't the same. Ask yourself this: How close to the drum corps of the 40's was the 70's version? Are we further away from 70's corps than they were from the 40's?

Maybe that's a little too far. How about this: Is the change from 80's to 00's more than from 60's to 80's? I'm not sure how prejudiced a "yes" answer is, but I think it's correct. Now, you can answer for yourself whether you like that or not. Some do, some don't.

I didn't watch the DCI on ESPN2, so I can't comment, but I went to the same DCI show 3 years running. And, while it was nice, I still haven't found much to get excited about like I used to. To me, it's about as exciting as going to a HS band competition. And I don't mean that I think of DCI corps as marching bands. (Although that gets easier all the time.) My reaction to both genres is the same: some good ideas, varying degrees of execution, likeable presentations, kids learning life lessons, but ultimately about as deep and interesting as a Harlequin romance novel - something to pass the time. And, band shows are cheap compared to DCI. They also do amps better!

I read on the DCI side of DCP that the ESPN2 broadcast was a better presentation than last year (which I did see). All I can say is, "Thank goodness!" DCI doesn't need another one like last year.

Keith, be careful when opening your mind up; make sure your brains don't fall out!

[Dale Bari]

we think it's junk. you don't. so be it.

If by "you" you mean me specifically, don't be so quick to think that I disagree with you. (Or maybe I do; I try to remain slightly agnostic on the question.) See my above post.