Hrothgar15 Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 I didn't dismiss your argument.The reason I think that Hrothgar's opinion on what drum corps is about isn't valid is because he hasn't experienced it from both sides. If anything people who are the sacred defenders of the holy opinion are "champions of the infallible poster" Nobody can ever be wrong because it's all opinions. If you disagree then OH MY GOD WHY ARE YOU INFRINGING ON MY RIGHT TO HAVE AN OPINION!?!?!?!?!? Drum corps isn't "about" the same thing to every person. I can very validly say what it is about to me at this point in time without having marched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Drum corps isn't "about" the same thing to every person. I can very validly say what it is about to me at this point in time without having marched. Yes, but again, you were mocking those who think it is about more than instrumentation. THAT is what this whole discussion is about. Also, for someone who says he doesn't pretend to know what it is like to be a member you have been pretty adamant about ruining recordings for the sake of members in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyTenor Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 I didn't dismiss your argument. Thanks. All that typing, and cutting and pasting just shouldn't go to waste! The reason I think that Hrothgar's opinion on what drum corps is about isn't valid is because he hasn't experienced it from both sides. Perhaps I falsely thought you were of the gang that seems to dismiss everything Hrothgar says just because HE says it. He's not altogether wrong, though i agree he'll have more depth once he gets in there and sees from the inside. There's also the possibility his opinions will be validated by his own experience. If anything people who are the sacred defenders of the holy opinion are "champions of the infallible poster" I'm targeting those who dismiss Hrothgar wholesale without really addressing what he's written. Nobody can ever be wrong because it's all opinions. If you disagree then OH MY GOD WHY ARE YOU INFRINGING ON MY RIGHT TO HAVE AN OPINION!?!?!?!?!?Not me!There are those who post as though their opinion is fact. Disagreement is not necessarily infringement on opinion, especially if you can back up your side of the argument. But even evidence and fact won't change some opinions. Garry in Vegas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 So, Mike, can you explain how adding instruments will add butts in seats? Your statement of "(t)o be relevant" sounds like you're marketing to a subset of high school kids. If that's your target demo... it's not exactly bursting at the seams with dinero, or benefit to the activity. And I can't imagine there are too many band directors that are going to say "oh, well, DCI is musical now that they allow reeds". That battle was fought and won already. In 1987, band directors were usually ambivalent. Now, they're very much in the corner of drum corps.Succinctly then, Mike, what instrument(s) will put more butts in seats? Me: To be relevant to the wider audience you suggest...we need MORE change, not less. Electronics, more amplified voice..etc..are the things needed to even begin to accomplish that. What I was refering to is the idea that drum corps needs to widen it's appeal beyond the target market. IMO that means to the non-band/corps person. To do so you need most especially a lot of micced vocals and electronics. I'm not saying I agree with the basic idea, just that if such a thing IS desired, what there s today sound-wise is not going to cut it. Instrumentals are few and far between in the popular world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 I laughing because when I first started marching in drum and bugle corps in 1964, if you called a drum corps a band or even insinuated the comparison...you were in serious danger of being injured, unless you took it back in a hurry. Also unless it was obvious you had mental problems, (like you belonged to a band).I can't conceive of the punishment that would have ensued had you called a drum corps the, "marching arts" back then. Maybe a little head scratching and then your funeral a couple of days later. :P Which was silly then, and even sillier today. Sorry on with the real discussion of why MikeD is wrong right b**bs :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcat Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 The PRODUCT is NOT about the INSTRUMENTATION. Let me say IT AGAIN. THE PRODUCT IS NOT THE INSTRUMENTATION. The product is a summer tour experience, and that's why I pay thousands into this activity and you pay $20 for a show. The secondary product, after that, is the performances, which still IS NOT THE INSTRUMENTATION. I do not want to take away tubas and add in flutes, I don't know where you're getting that from. I'd much rather add to the corps, because as you just stated, to do otherwise would be pointless. We do not have the talent, exposure, or interest to expand hornlines successfully with brass the way we could with woodwinds. I'm not saying take away any of the horns, and I never have.--- Individual organizations can choose to remain all-brass if they so desire. I'm not in favor of passing a law requiring woodwind usage; just legalizing it. OK, so two major problems then. First, you're wrong. I don't pay to see you tour. I don't buy APDs of your bus ride. I don't buy DVDs of your trip around the country. The product is the music, period. You can argue that bands sound better because they have oboes, but you cannot say that the choice to have them is anything but the product. Second, every known bit of legislation has become mandatory through de facto judging. Check out the rant about Pioneer and their G horns, or all the world class corps that have amps (all). So if you think this is all a summer camp program that fans pay for, and don't care about the sound coming at them, you are hopelessly lost with your head in your ###. Most of the people on here that want to go beyond brass at least have a reasonable argument about adding to the overall sound. You sound like you'd rather have 250-member supercorps with all sorts of woodwinds, because the fans don't matter; they're here to support your summer trip. Ah youth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Second, every known bit of legislation has become mandatory through de facto judging. Check out the rant about Pioneer and their G horns, or all the world class corps that have amps (all). I think that THIS is the problem we should be focusing on. IF corps aren't punished for not using the various new things that come along then I see no problem with letting corps that do want to use things use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 No woodwinds. Or, if you do, no woodwind features allowed and no amplification of them allowed. I am not interested in a drum corps show where some woodwind player hypes about their big solo. The "marching arts" do not get any more ridiculous than that. They are great instruments for their place, but I don't feel they belong on a field. The brass, drums, and the volume they generate is what attracted me to drum corps. As the emphasis on them is reduced, the activity becomes less interesting. Drum corps can keep chasing that elusive mainstream acceptance some seem to crave, or they can settle into the niche they occupy and do it really well. I'd choose the latter. Tell the WW at the 27,000 HS and thousands of colleges they are ridiculous for bothering to play and march. Essentially, to me, Hopkins has taken an "ends justify the means" attitude where as long as they deliver the goods on audience numbers/etc, it validates whatever compromises have to be made along the way. Scott Stewart thinks how you get there is at least as important as getting there at all (and probably more important, ultimately). I agree with that philosophy in life as well. You have completely misunderstood Hoppy...just read what members say about what HE says to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekneek Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 (edited) Tell the WW at the 27,000 HS and thousands of colleges they are ridiculous for bothering to play and march. If they tell me that, because they march them I should be pleased to have them infiltrate Drum and Bugle Corps, I will. You have completely misunderstood Hoppy...just read what members say about what HE says to them. I attempted to clarify what I meant in a later post. Edited November 24, 2007 by Tekneek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 As one of those old pharts who's been in the activity since Lassie was a pup...The most important lessons drum corps has to offer have nothing to do with music or marching. Or winning. As another one of those old pharts who's been in the activity since Lassie was a pup...I add ...or the instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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