MikeD Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Why would your band class be limited to world organizations?And can you guarantee even 10,000 tickets sold for your experiment? You'd better, if you're gonna put them on Saturday night. Not limited..but IMO that is where they would come from initially. Same show as World Class finals...no need to make it a separate show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madscout96 Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 (edited) ...Same show as World Class finals...no need to make it a separate show. So... a night of 12 band followed by 12 corps? wow... Edited November 24, 2007 by madscout96 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcat Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Irregardless You lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 b**bs OK, I cower here in fear and you stay safely inside with your statistics. b**bs Edit - The crime index doesn't mean anything. It's just a meaningless statistic, like the unemployment rate,etc. it's just a self serving numbers game. It's not real world. I know, all you know is what you read on your computer. Must not come back.... This argument is pointless......ergo........ And all you know is what you hear on your television. If you can't give me hard evidence that there is actually more crime now than 20 years ago then I don't know how you expect me to believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcat Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Why would your band class be limited to world organizations?And can you guarantee even 10,000 tickets sold for your experiment? You'd better, if you're gonna put them on Saturday night. So true... we can't get 3,000 people to get into Division 2/3 Finals last year, but we're gonna take both divisions and split them as they will, to be bands or not bands, have them judged separately, and sell tickets to both? That's totally divide and conquer. If you are one of the (insert description here) woodwinders, you must at least argue from the POV that drum corps has to add the instruments wholesale. There's no other argument. No one out there is saying, "####, the day DCI lets clarinets in, I'm gonna start a DCI band." The change does nothing to add corps/bands to the circuit. Frankly, the biggest hurdle to woodwinds is the limit of players in a corps. It would be a disadvantage to any corps adding any woodwind section... a viable section would take away enough brass that it would be a disadvantage. The only way non-brass would enter drum corps by just opening the rules is through soli, and if that's how it goes, it will make the greatest impact in the total product. YTF are we still talking instrumentation? This is so stupid; there's no legit argument for woodwinds at all. If we add woodwinds, the number of participants is the ###### same. If we remove the number of members to a corps, the competition is forever uneven. And if we significantly change the product, we alienate the group we covet the most; non-band ticketbuyers. Adding woodwinds does not put butts in seats, and it does not increase corps membership, or the number of corps. In the end, it's an unjustifiable change to an activity whose entire heritage is balanced on one discerning musical factor; its instrumentation. This one, last vestige of identity is entirely what and why, and to even consider tinkering with that concept is so repugnant, it only makes you wonder what the motivation is for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoltonH178 Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 (edited) So if you think this is all a summer camp program that fans pay for, and don't care about the sound coming at them, you are hopelessly lost with your head in your ###. Most of the people on here that want to go beyond brass at least have a reasonable argument about adding to the overall sound. You sound like you'd rather have 250-member supercorps with all sorts of woodwinds, because the fans don't matter; they're here to support your summer trip.Ah youth... Um, sorry, but I'll happily switch over to providing positive experiences to the next generation of youth once I age out, instead of getting caught up in "tradition" for tradition's sake, half-###ed supporting the activity, and #####ing on the internet. Ah, selfishness...gotta love them 'Boomers.' I'm done with this conversation. Edited November 24, 2007 by HoltonH178 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 So true... we can't get 3,000 people to get into Division 2/3 Finals last year, but we're gonna take both divisions and split them as they will, to be bands or not bands, have them judged separately, and sell tickets to both?That's totally divide and conquer. Nope...be one show with two sets of scores. If you are one of the (insert description here) woodwinders, you must at least argue from the POV that drum corps has to add the instruments wholesale. There's no other argument. No one out there is saying, "####, the day DCI lets clarinets in, I'm gonna start a DCI band." The change does nothing to add corps/bands to the circuit. Frankly, the biggest hurdle to woodwinds is the limit of players in a corps. It would be a disadvantage to any corps adding any woodwind section... a viable section would take away enough brass that it would be a disadvantage.The only way non-brass would enter drum corps by just opening the rules is through soli, and if that's how it goes, it will make the greatest impact in the total product. No, you MUST not argue from any single perspective. Makes more sense to do what I suggest...a separate division as part of the World Class show. There would be no size limit in the new division, so yes, it would add more marching members. YTF are we still talking instrumentation? This is so stupid; there's no legit argument for woodwinds at all. If we add woodwinds, the number of participants is the ###### same. If we remove the number of members to a corps, the competition is forever uneven. And if we significantly change the product, we alienate the group we covet the most; non-band ticketbuyers. Adding woodwinds does not put butts in seats, and it does not increase corps membership, or the number of corps. In the end, it's an unjustifiable change to an activity whose entire heritage is balanced on one discerning musical factor; its instrumentation. This one, last vestige of identity is entirely what and why, and to even consider tinkering with that concept is so repugnant, it only makes you wonder what the motivation is for it. There is no argument in 2007 against WW. Instrumentation has never mattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcat Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Um, sorry, but I'll happily switch over to providing positive experiences to the next generation of youth once I age out, instead of getting caught up in "tradition" for tradition's sake, half-###ed supporting the activity, and #####ing on the internet.Ah, selfishness...gotta love them 'Boomers.' I'm done with this conversation. You can be done. But this has nothing to do with selfishness. When you grow up, you'll learn that drum corps today is still a business. If you have no business sense, you will not have a place to switch to, and there will be no positive experiences. Tradition in this case is not for the sake of doing it like it was. Tradition happens to also be the one thing that differentiates the product (which is the music, no matter how you may disagree), and by being the sole purveyor of this special music, junior drum corps has survived and thrived. If your product is not special, your institution will die. If you think I'm kidding, let me ask you this... it would be very easy for someone to float around some college stadiums and record bands. Let's say "Bands of the Pac-10" is the CD created. Let me ask you... do you think that this product would be particularly high volume? No fight songs, just half-time entertainment. What do you think the odds are that this is something you could sell? Outside of some kids at Stanford and Wazzu, not many. But that's what you're asking to create. Maybe once you age out, and have to pony up some $$$ for a ticket, you might feel differently. Maybe not. But either way, your idea is bad business. And for that matter, who's #####ing on the internet? Oh, all of us equally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcat Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 (edited) Nope...be one show with two sets of scores. No, you MUST not argue from any single perspective. Makes more sense to do what I suggest...a separate division as part of the World Class show. There would be no size limit in the new division, so yes, it would add more marching members. There is no argument in 2007 against WW. Instrumentation has never mattered. Rehash, rehash... divide and die. If instruments didn't matter, then why have they always been excluded? Mike, I respect your opinion. It's wrong, but unless you have something new here, like how you plan on increasing attendance tangibly, I'll pass. There's no reason to think that suddenly bands would spring to life, and if you convert an existing corps, you're removing a drum corps from what would be a "corps division", and that's not acceptable either. Maybe if the Cadets peeled off, did an exhibition, and fans loved all 285 of them, clarinets and all, we'd buy it. Until then, it's BoA. And every time I watch BoA, I know why I like DCI. Edited November 24, 2007 by drumcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVQuesty Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 (edited) Ok, so I've read the 200+ posts in this conversation. It has everything from old way to new way to woodwinds to no woodwinds. My only comment here is on the woodwind front... I foresee a problem on the woodwind front I'd be interested to see A) how it would be handled and B) how it would affect rehearsal continuity and intensity My rookie year with CV, on the night of prelims the skies pretty much opened up on us. I mean POURED. That year, in my recollection, we got hit time and time again by torrential downpours at our rehearsals. Sure, we rehearsed indoors and did a lot of basics, but we also powered through a LOT of that. (not to mention marching prelims '06 in Hurricane Ernesto) How can you handle needing to have a significant pad job pretty much every month? They run over a hundred bucks these days. That's a pretty significant premium to pay to march woodwinds. Instead, if you have a brass horn, it's no longer an issue. Just power through the rain and wait for the sun. Imagine the same problem in an all-age situation with a bi-weekly rehearsal schedule... Maybe being in the position to have to do a full pad job twice MONTHLY? How would that be handled? Imagine also if that downpour would happen on Friday night of Jr. camp and the woodwinds are all rendered useless for the duration of the weekend? What type of effects would that have on the corps' camps? What would it introduce to the world of Drum Corps? Would we find corps all trying to relocate to dryer climates to increase their rehearsal times without the interruption of "nature" in the form of rain? Let's say the corps is in a pretty intense session cleaning up a particularly difficult move or transition and the staff is right at the cusp of a breakthrough, and then it starts to rain? (those of you who march know what I mean here) All woodwinds have to retreat form the field to ditch their horns in a protected environment. The continuity of rehearsal is now shot, and the chance to capture that flow and forward progress will be VERY difficult to recapture. Is the inclusion of the new instruments worth the varied distractions and costs that might be introduced therein? I'd be interested especially in the opinions of Jr. marchers. I have an all-age experience, so I know how crippling it would be in our organization, but I'd be interested to see what those who have marched Jr. think and how they feel it would affect the rehearsal environment. Also, if you don't mind, tell me if you've staffed at the Jr. or all-age level so I can temper your answers. Edited November 24, 2007 by CVQuesty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts