Martybucs Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 How much more often do spouses fight when money is tight, huh? Hopkins and Stewart are married to eachother? I knew something was going on there. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphaba01 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Based on their ideas presented in 1997 to the DCI Executive Committee meeting, summarized here, whose views do you agree with more? Whose plans do you think would benefit the activity most? "Never Been a Fan of Corps": Yep: Ol' Hashmark pretty well summed up his entire view of the "Activity" right there. "Drum Corps" is just a stepping stone to his hearts real desire: Marching Band. b**bs Bring on the reeds & woodwinds folks... ^0^ Elphaba WWW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoltonH178 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 "Never Been a Fan of Corps":Yep: Ol' Hashmark pretty well summed up his entire view of the "Activity" right there. "Drum Corps" is just a stepping stone to his hearts real desire: Marching Band. b**bs Bring on the reeds & woodwinds folks... ^0^ Elphaba WWW I will always define drum corps by its touring experience and environment...if it's not an academic organization, if it doesn't happen during the fall, if it involves an actual tour, and if it's the only focus of the performers' lives at the time...it's a drum corps, whether there are reeds and woodwinds involved or not. Whether a performer is playing a trumpet or a clarinet seems so trivial. It's unfortunate that so many are so short-sighted on this fact... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I will always define drum corps by its touring experience and environment...if it's not an academic organization, if it doesn't happen during the fall, if it involves an actual tour, and if it's the only focus of the performers' lives at the time...it's a drum corps, We've been forced to come up with more creative criteria to define a distinction for drum corps, haven't we? A few years ago you could draw the distinction with marching bands more easily: if they use G-bugles, and no woodwinds, and no amps, and limit their size, it's drum corps. Now, we have to be more creatvie. OK, it has a tour, and happens in the summer, and it's the only focus of the performer's lives..... Hey, that could also be used to define the circus, or stock car circuit, or beauty pageants, or the PGA tour. BTW, this is no jab at you HoltonH. But I think you pointed out something here. The distinction is no longer very distinct. So, why buy a Pepsi vs. a Coke? Not much of a difference. The only way you survive is if the overall market is big enough to buy enough of both very similar products. It's not Snapple vs. Coke anymore.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoltonH178 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 We've been forced to come up with more creative criteria to define a distinction for drum corps, haven't we? A few years ago you could draw the distinction with marching bands more easily: if they use G-bugles, and no woodwinds, and no amps, and limit their size, it's drum corps. Now, we have to be more creatvie. OK, it has a tour, and happens in the summer, and it's the only focus of the performer's lives..... Hey, that could also be used to define the circus, or stock car circuit, or beauty pageants, or the PGA tour. BTW, this is no jab at you HoltonH. But I think you pointed out something here. The distinction is no longer very distinct. So, why buy a Pepsi vs. a Coke? Not much of a difference. The only way you survive is if the overall market is big enough to buy enough of both very similar products. It's not Snapple vs. Coke anymore.. Or we could just call it "marching band," instead of being persnickety and egotistical about the whole "IT'S A CORPS!" thing. :P Keep in mind, I used those distinctions to separate DCI from "marching band," not from beauty pageants and Nascar or whatever. I think this is something that has been made clear, or is being made clear, but either way I find myself repeating it a lot: marching bands have replaced smaller/local corps...of course they're similar. I just finished spending a season teaching high schoolers the exact same things I learned marching a World Class Finalist. I think marching band and drum corps are like Diet Coke and Coke, not Coke and Pepsi. Just look at the crossover between staffs, and it's clear that they're really the same brand these days...which if anything, makes for an argument for combining the two, so that we have a more appealing product than the golfers or whoever our apparent competition is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 ..it's a drum corps, whether there are reeds and woodwinds involved or not. Whether a performer is playing a trumpet or a clarinet seems so trivial.It's unfortunate that so many are so short-sighted on this fact... ...and just as many people feel that bell-front brass instrumentation is one of the defining features of a drum corps. It's not being short-sighted, it's a matter of opinion...and its certainly just as valid as the "anything goes" mindset. If woodwinds come to pass, there's no difference for some folks between this and any other marching band circuit, and for many out of that subset, the hook is gone....no matter how many hours you practice, what you sing/play or whatever else. If the thought process is that having one homogeneous activity is the end result, those that want to bring woodwinds aboard should consider what would truly set a "summer marching band" apart, what (if any) segment of the base you might alienate with such a decision, and how you brand a product that most people, on first blush, would say they've seen down at the local band competition. These things need to be talked about as we move forward; there has to be a clear plan of marketability, and the brand must still stand above any other marching circuit in the end. There's a lot more to consider than what kind of sounds you can make...and, a lot of the time, the proposals that come across the table from the Board of Directors lack that kind of thought. If anything, being "short-sighted" ...by definition...is a lack of foresight or scope towards the future. Once I see a proposal from pro-woodwind directors and creators that does just that in regards to DCI as a brand and is concerned more about long term implications rather than short term gains... perhaps I won't consider them just as short-sighted in some regards as you may think I am. Anyway, happy Thanksgiving...time to go get a second cup of coffee. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 If they use G-bugles, and no woodwinds, and no amps, and limit their size, it's drum corps. If there was a high school band that used G-bugles and no woodwinds and no amps and limited its size would they be a drum corps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 If there was a high school band that used G-bugles and no woodwinds and no amps and limited its size would they be a drum corps? ...if they competed during the summer within DCA/DCI, then sure. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoltonH178 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 (edited) ...and just as many people feel that bell-front brass instrumentation is one of the defining features of a drum corps.It's not being short-sighted, it's a matter of opinion...and its certainly just as valid as the "anything goes" mindset. If woodwinds come to pass, there's no difference for some folks between this and any other marching band circuit, and for many out of that subset, the hook is gone....no matter how many hours you practice, what you sing/play or whatever else. Bawker, first let me start by saying I'm delighted you chose to respond my post. :) It's really difficult for me to comprehend someone being involved in drum corps primarily for its exclusion of certain instruments. I understand the argument for keeping brass instruments for the sake of tradition, but as it is, I feel like there are so many brass ensembles out there that offer a higher-quality product from a dimension of sound. What's more, no one's talking about getting rid of, trimming down, or minimizing the role of the brass line in any drum corps performance. What you are enjoying will still be there; I can hardly see the absence of woodwinds as being something which provides an asset to our activity outside of its role as a traditional keepsake. There will always be a difference between drum corps and marching band from the performance angle, because drum corps allows for the best performers of a certain age to get together and accomplish things that can never be done in regionally-restricted high school marching band circuits. You will never see an organization like you see in the top 12 at DCI finals at a high school marching band competition, and that is a fact. Even BOA finals, which represents the highest echelon of performance in its arena, can't come close to doing the same kinds of things that world class corps do. Meanwhile, I don't know if you read my first post in this thread, but opening woodwinds (at least from my perspective) adds a huge segment of the music community to further involvement in DCI, and I still stand by my point that I feel like adamantly blocking woodwinds is short-sighted. I feel like being a DCI patron also comes with certain responsibilities to promote the activity, and to endeavor for the experience (which, for the most part, is the primary asset and appeal of our activity) to be available to as many people as possible. I could be the only one who feels that way, though. If the thought process is that having one homogeneous activity is the end result, those that want to bring woodwinds aboard should consider what would truly set a "summer marching band" apart, what (if any) segment of the base you might alienate with such a decision, and how you brand a product that most people, on first blush, would say they've seen down at the local band competition.These things need to be talked about as we move forward; there has to be a clear plan of marketability, and the brand must still stand above any other marching circuit in the end. There's a lot more to consider than what kind of sounds you can make...and, a lot of the time, the proposals that come across the table from the Board of Directors lack that kind of thought. If anything, being "short-sighted" ...by definition...is a lack of foresight or scope towards the future. Once I see a proposal from pro-woodwind directors and creators that does just that in regards to DCI as a brand and is concerned more about long term implications rather than short term gains... perhaps I won't consider them just as short-sighted in some regards as you may think I am. Anyway, happy Thanksgiving...time to go get a second cup of coffee. :) All I can really say to this part of the post is that you're absolutely right. I feel like adding woodwinds adds a hugely significant amount of performers (and whoever their associates may be) to our most valuable pool of patrons, and that's a long-term benefit compared to keeping them excluded on the basis of instrumentation. As much as people might say they've seen it at the local high school competition, it's still going to be a summer show...hopefully that would give them a clue :). There is also a DCI presence at pretty much every HS show you attend these days, which I've said earlier. Sometimes I feel like drum corps has this illusion that people who weren't in high school band, or had a friend or family member who was, follow our activity...in my experience, it has been very different, so I suppose that would be why I'm not as concerned about the difference being so clear; I expect that those who would make a significant, positive contribution to DCI would already know "what's up." Happy Thanksgiving to you, too :). Edited November 22, 2007 by HoltonH178 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meaghatron Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 If there was a high school band that used G-bugles and no woodwinds and no amps and limited its size would they be a drum corps? At one of the band competitions I went to this fall, a high school put out a drum corps. Their name, not my term. They were like the something High School Lion Drum Corps. No amps, no woodwinds... they were probably not using G-bugles, but they were smaller (maybe 40 winds, if that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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