Competition has no place in music education

[KeithHall]

I had a professor that taught that too. He also used his own word "comparition" (comparing and not rating). I chatted with him about this and said that competition happens all the time and not just in marching band or drum and bugle corps. Sports teams compete! I said, "I will be in competition with every single music ed major to land THE GIG!" There is competition everywhere. These professors that lecture about this are the ones that may have not been successful in their younger years and that's why they turn to teaching college. I look at it this way...we don't have to take everything a professor teaches us as the gospel. Take what will work for you! Steal from another teacher but use what you feel comfortable using.

... according to several Music Ed profs I had back in the day.

I would guess the same mindset is still prevalent on many college campuses, and MusEd majors who have had valuable educational experiences in either marching band or drum corps know differently because they have lived it.

Anyone have horror stories from your college days when a Music Education Professor would rail on about the horrors of competition?

One thing that always seemed ironic to me- the highest level of musicianship is dependent on competition.

By that I mean when you go to hear a professional symphony play, how did their musicians get their jobs? They competed before an audition committee. Same for many other professional music jobs.

While their job is not a competition, how they got the job certainly was.

Even in non-competitive school music programs, somebody has to audtion for wind ensemble, or show choir, or the lead in the school musical, or in many cases who gets the solo....

When winning becomes the main goal, then I agree there is a problem, but that is more on the directors priorities than on the benefits of competition itself (when priorities are in order).

Thoughts or interesting stories/exchanges you guys have had on this topic?

[TerriTroop]

I've been thinking about this topic a lot since it started.

1. I was in band and choir (public school) and competition was just a part of what I encountered. I had great teachers who knew how to do their job without making it all about the ratings at contest. Kudos to them!

2. I work in a private school and love it because I don't have to drag my ensembles all over creation for competitions. I send kids to region auditions every year, but it's not a big part of what I do. Our music programs don't have the kind of space, schedule or staff that public schools have, so my focus is on a different picture. The reality of my situation is that most of my kids are not seeking music out as their post-high school focus. I've had 1 student major in music so far. She's about to finish up at Berklee. I have another student who will likely pursue film music if they keep to their current interests, and there could be a couple more down the pike. I've spent 9 years building my programs from scratch (mostly) and I anticipate more interest in music after high school as time passes.

3. Speaking of private school... Most private schools are under-funded and under-staffed in this area. I'm one of the lucky ones. Private schools get overlooked far too often by colleges precisely because our kids won't have a litany of contest placements on their transcripts, but people like me are trying to change that by communicating with colleges and conservatories early and often. (it helps that I served for 2 years as the undergrad advisor at the Univ. of Houston School of Music, so I know the ins and outs of many programs.)

4. Yes, competition is part of life. I agree with that. But that's not all. Scholarship auditions at many colleges and conservatories are not blindly competetive. Private lesson teachers frequently have a list of students they want in their studio, and those teachers frequently just give a list to the scholarship coordinator. So, if you really want a scholarship start schmoozing those college profs. There's a lot of "it's about who you know" in life too. You can be a better candidate for a job but get passed over because another candidate is already buddies with the hiring team.

Anyway, I think some teachers have it right and know how to balance competition with good teaching. I think other teachers are all about the trophies and their kids get burned out faster. And still others are just trying to get by in underfunded, understaffed programs - public and private. There is only one sure thing: music in schools is good for kids, period. The style of the program (competitive, non-competitive, blend of both) is up to the governing school system in place.

Edited December 5, 2007 by TerriTroop

[Eddie]

music.... and the performing arts in general is all about competition... reaching to get that principle chair, the lead role, solos, the concerto competitions, school music festivals, I&E evaluations.... I mean, where is there NOT competition?

I find going through an audition is no different than a corps competing on the field as we are being evaluated for a position that is given to us from someone who is doing nothing more than expressing their own opinion.

[CVQuesty]

I'm guessing you read the interviews that were linked by me earlier.

Having spent three entire days with him in Buffalo, running him around and sitting with him at rehearsals and Quarterfinals, and a number of days at his condo over the years, and having talked with him about drum corps often, he had a lot of respect for what he was observing in drum corps. He even adopted the method SCV used to describe volume, saying it was more accurate than the old Latin terms we used that were pretty vague.

He claimed that good musicianship could be taught in any idiom. Having been a marching band director, and knowing he imparted good musical values to his students, he believed the marching idioms were more than capable of providing a solid music education during the time the students spent with the ensembles. He also believed that marching ensembles brought many students into a life of music who wouldn't have discovered the joy of performance otherwise.

Dr. Fennell made it clear in the one interview what he thought of educators who showed nothing but disdain for marching bands and drum corps. And the reason was because he believed in those activities as viable forms of musical expression.

I got to spend some amazing time with Mr. Fennell and Frank Wickes in the late 90's. My introduction w=to him by Mr. Wickes was "Come here, Jerald, I want to introduce you to someone."

An amazing man.

[CVQuesty]

I always assumed the reason to join drum corps was to play loud and get drunk

That was Sr. Corps in the old days LOL!

Now we have shows and demand that pretty much preclude any level of inebriation. It's not uncommon to find all-agers shows running between 150 - 200 bpm. Today's all-age is not your father's Sr. corps. If you get out there impaired in any way in today's All-age environment, you stand a very real chance of hurting yourself and others.

(just in case this wasn't a troll-bait)

[Michael Boo]

I got to spend some amazing time with Mr. Fennell and Frank Wickes in the late 90's. My introduction w=to him by Mr. Wickes was "Come here, Jerald, I want to introduce you to someone."

An amazing man.

And I believe with every fiber in my body that Dr. Fennell was as genuinely excited to meet you as you were to meet him.

[JoeDz]

Play one note one time.

The next time you play it you are hopefully competing with the first time you played it.

Joe

[Tekneek]

Yeah, and the Fortune 500 should hire everybody because their purpose in life is to provide jobs and benefits for the people. And dodge ball causes junior to feel inadequate.

Not sure what Fortune 500 companies have to do with education. Few of them train anybody to do anything these days. Education is not a primary concern to them. You are supposed to be educated enough for their needs before you get hired. I don't care about dodge ball, nor understand your point regarding it.

Competition is a good thing, whether it's in football, band/drum corps (two separate activities largely drawing from the same people), badmitton, or whatever. Competition breeds excellence and instills a strong work ethic that all of us know to be applicable in the broader world. That's why Harvard Law doesn't accept everybody that applies!

Competition is not the only or best way to teach work ethic and it has nothing to do with Harvard Law. They don't accept those with the best work ethics, they accept those with the educational portfolio that they are looking for. They don't care how hard you worked for it, at least from what I have read and heard.

And if that means that band is judged and bands are compared based on placements, then so be it. The members of drum corps gain so much from 'competing' at a high level and putting their every effort into the experience.

So? I was talking about education and whether it should be a competition or not. Not whether drum corps should be a competition or not. I also never said people learn nothing from competition.

It is the kid who sits at home and plays X-box all day who is overweight, out of shape, has asthma and diabetes, no social skills, and a terrible inability to take defeat or loss. Band-O's/DCI members walk around like the alpha male lion. I'll take it!

Another bizarre thing to draw from what I typed. You have clearly brought your own interpretation of what I said which bears almost no resemblance to what I actually typed.

[Tekneek]

So then, are you saying that these lifelong educators who invest themselves in the Drum Corps idiom are not educating? I have a certain Freddy Martin who would like to have a word with you regarding that assessment... and Wayne Downey, and Jim Prime, and Jim Ott (rip).

Freddy spent a lot of time with us in 1993 and it meant a lot to me. He never once played up the competitive aspect of drum corps with us. He was about education. Perhaps you can see the difference. He never talked about scores and placements that I personally heard. He wanted the best we could give, but it didn't seem to have anything at all to do with the competitive aspect of the activity. Maybe he had been different in the past...

Edited December 6, 2007 by Tekneek

[Tekneek]

That's how it works in drum corps and marching band. The education received learning and perfecting the show prepares the group for the competition.

There is education and learning even IN the competition as well, IMO. A lot of it is not pure music, but rather other "life lessons", but there is education going on. Actually, there is even music education going on as well....learning how to crank it up and perform as opposaed to rehearsing is musically valid, IMO.

Honestly, I am surprised that you care about competition at all, given the arguments that woodwinds should be allowed in because they find themselves unable to compete effectively on drum corps instruments. You seem to be contradicting yourself.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Tekneek