Inside the Arc 7

[ironlips]

Jeez, guys. I'm only 61, barely into my geezerhood.

[CrunchyTenor]

Jeez, guys. I'm only 61, barely into my geezerhood.

Frank, you are FAR from geezerhood. Your spirit is as young as it's ever been. Hope to see you in San Francisco for Chinese New Year? Olivia, the Rene-Baby, is looking forward to another impromptu solo concert.

Garry in Vegas

[Bones758]

Ok, I get his point and agree to an extent, but he ignores alot of the micing the pit stuff.

1st - No pit has nine marimbas.....Maybe 4 or 5.

2nd - Micing the pit has lead to COUNTLESS progressions of the education and entertainment parts of dci, the two parts that are IMO, the most important. Kids are learning how to play more instruments, ethnic drums, dombeks, tabla, etc... a good example is Coats 05. Without amps, soooo many of the unique sounds would have been impossible. You can't hear a log drum outside from more than about 50 yards away, you just can't. The audience is being exposed to all kinds of new instruments every year, and hopefully being entertained.

3rd - Amping the keyboards and timpani gives the instrument a way to be heard the way its meant to be heard, instead of sounding like lifeless, colorless fake wood. Theses are beautiful instruments that can produce some of the warmest and fullest sounds. Without amps they sound like crap. The were beaten to death and sounded thin and tinny. Now they sound full and warm, like they were meant to sound.

I agree that we need to get better with these electronics, but amping the pit was a step in the right direction.

Just think about how pit breaks like the beggining of phantom 07 would sound without amps. The players would have had to use rocks to play the instruments, and the effect would be completely lost. The were able to use sensitive mallets and produce a full sound.

[Piper]

Ok, I get his point and agree to an extent, but he ignores alot of the micing the pit stuff.

1st - No pit has nine marimbas.....Maybe 4 or 5. quote]

True. But the pits are stacked to the max. No need for more stuff there.

[JerseyBoy_]

Ok, I get his point and agree to an extent, but he ignores alot of the micing the pit stuff.

1st - No pit has nine marimbas.....Maybe 4 or 5.

2nd - Micing the pit has lead to COUNTLESS progressions of the education and entertainment parts of dci, the two parts that are IMO, the most important. Kids are learning how to play more instruments, ethnic drums, dombeks, tabla, etc... a good example is Coats 05. Without amps, soooo many of the unique sounds would have been impossible. You can't hear a log drum outside from more than about 50 yards away, you just can't. The audience is being exposed to all kinds of new instruments every year, and hopefully being entertained.

3rd - Amping the keyboards and timpani gives the instrument a way to be heard the way its meant to be heard, instead of sounding like lifeless, colorless fake wood. Theses are beautiful instruments that can produce some of the warmest and fullest sounds. Without amps they sound like crap. The were beaten to death and sounded thin and tinny. Now they sound full and warm, like they were meant to sound.

I agree that we need to get better with these electronics, but amping the pit was a step in the right direction.

Just think about how pit breaks like the beggining of phantom 07 would sound without amps. The players would have had to use rocks to play the instruments, and the effect would be completely lost. The were able to use sensitive mallets and produce a full sound.

Agreed , there is many instruments a corps can now use and be heard with amps . this is a positive move.

but there must be better mixing and writing in these pit sections.

do all pit instruments need to be amped ?

for every example ( phantom 2007 ) there are 10 bad ones.

these rules are for all corps. not just the top 3 .

how many corps amp there pits now ?

how many do it correctly ?

how many turn amps on and leave them on the whole show ?

understand it is still new and we are all still learning. but it needs to get better.

CHEZ

[TerriTroop]

3rd - Amping the keyboards and timpani gives the instrument a way to be heard the way its meant to be heard, instead of sounding like lifeless, colorless fake wood. Theses are beautiful instruments that can produce some of the warmest and fullest sounds. Without amps they sound like crap. The were beaten to death and sounded thin and tinny. Now they sound full and warm, like they were meant to sound.

No, they are meant to be acoustically heard and with amplification (as it was this year) they sound tinny and anachronistic to the acoustic sounds around them. Yes, performers don't have to beat the crap out of some of the instruments if they are amped, but the quality of outdoor percussion equipment it has come a VERY long way both in sound and durability. Drum corps is an outdoor music program, and that requires a bit of compromise to work within the venue.

Amplification for the sake of more and more "color" in the pit could lead to yet another GE gap. Corps that can't afford all of the "color" oriented instruments will again get penalized for working within their means. It happened already with amplification of the pit in general. I know that at least one corps that wasn't using amps at the beginning of the year added them mid-season because of this.

I know these instruments are interesting to play, but use them at I&E, or play them in an indoor setting where they are most effective. The "it's educational" argument can be used for just about anything. It's equally educational to learn the differences between outdoor and indoor technique on major percussion instruments. Are we going to stop beating the crap out of outdoor snares, toms and bass drums because that's not the proper indoor technique, thus it's not as educational?

[xmenjeffb]

Frank is dead on and his opinions come from such a solid background in this field that he is more than worth the time to read.

I have one major issue with voice and amplification and that is the way it is not judged .

His point on this is well taken and accurate. Using voice and not paying attention to balance and clarity should be judged like any other instrument.

Imagine a trumpet soloist standing on the front sideline and just playing high and loud for much of the show for no real reason. Just because he can ???

Trumpet players would like it ( LOL ) but the rest of audience might just question what he is doing . Then to make it worse one is on back sideline doing the same thing but we cant make out what he is even playing as he does his own thing facing away and it is unclear .

The outcome is what was that ????Why did they do that i could not make out what the rest of the group was playing most of the time. Was that trumpet voice supposed to cover up the other lines ?? But wow he could play high and loud !!!! Too bad the drum line didnt cover him up in the feature !!

I am all for voice , amps, and actually any voice or color that makes a show better in the eyes of the designers . Want to use an oboe or alto sax or basson and amplify it ?? Go for it !! but it will be judged as music and as coordination in effect.

[kevingamin]

understand it is still new and we are all still learning. but it needs to get better.

Except how many staffers who are "new" at amping corps pits have been amping marching band pits for years?

You'd think that "experience" would carry over.

[CrunchyTenor]

Except how many staffers who are "new" at amping corps pits have been amping marching band pits for years?

You'd think that "experience" would carry over.

From what I've heard in the band world for the past 20+ years of using amps and electronics, they're still trying to figure it out there, too.

I have to agree with the idea that certain instruments just weren't made to be played outdoors, and that the pit doesn't have to be heard, or even used, 100% of the time. Someone said earlier that if the battery could have tacit sections, so can the pit. And if you have to mike something to make it heard, it probably doesn't belong in a football stadium.

Why does drum corps have to carry the all-things-to-all-people mantle? Next time I hear "1812" from an orchestra, I want a full marching percussion battery out there. They really should learn something from Phantom Regiment.

See how silly that sounds turned around? It sounds just as silly trying to be something drum corps wasn't supposed to be in the first place.

Garry in Vegas

Edited December 8, 2007 by CrunchyTenor

[Bob J]

From what I've heard in the band world for the past 20+ years of using amps and electronics, they're still trying to figure it out there, too.

I have to agree with the idea that certain instruments just weren't made to be played outdoors, and that the pit doesn't have to be heard, or even used, 100% of the time. Someone said earlier that if the battery could have tacit sections, so can the pit. And if you have to mike something to make it heard, it probably doesn't belong in a football stadium.

Why does drum corps have to carry the all-things-to-all-people mantle? Next time I hear "1812" from an orchestra, I want a full marching percussion battery out there. They really should learn something from Phantom Regiment.

See how silly that sounds turned around? It sounds just as silly trying to be something drum corps wasn't supposed to be in the first place.

Garry in Vegas

Oh, please!

Try going to the Hollywood Bowl for the 1812 with the LA Philharmonic, fireworks and the USC marching band. Perfect example of trying to put things where they don't belong.