DCA is "filling a void" left by DCI's Super Corps Model

[MikeD]

Well, in the fall of '07, I don't know what vote was imminent, but I guess that is beside the point.

For my point, it's irrelevant that you told them to vote how they thought best.

(Actually, it's internally inconsistent to include such a statement: "Here's what I think you should do, but do what you think best anyways." At that point, why bother? You're defeating your own purpose.)

The important - and relevant - part is that you desired to make your voice known to them. You tried to influence their decision and to ensure that they accepted your view. You intended to counter someone else's position, one that you feared could overcome yours, if you left it to chance.

So by agreeing with me, you're saying you did exactly what you decried and claimed above that you'd eschew.

I responded to this....

So, you'd do nothing about it? You wouldn't express an opinion saying that DCI was wrong? You would keep mum about the whole thing? You wouldn't write a letter or email about it to any DCI official?

That's very admirable of you and quite consistent. <cue upperclass English accent> "Bloody good show, old man!"

This was made in reference to DCI deciding to remove amps or electronics. That means AFTER they made their vote. At that point my job as an audience member is to be a fan and enjoy the shows.

[kusankusho]

I responded to this....

This was made in reference to DCI deciding to remove amps or electronics. That means AFTER they made their vote. At that point my job as an audience member is to be a fan and enjoy the shows.

Hold it - I'm confused. Are you saying you told them what you hoped they would do, but to go ahead and do whatever they thought, AFTER they had already done it?

[MikeD]

Hold it - I'm confused. Are you saying you told them what you hoped they would do, but to go ahead and do whatever they thought, AFTER they had already done it?

Yes, you are confused, I guess.

[Kyle B]

I think he means he will do whatever he wants before the vote, but after it he'll follow whatever they decide. ???

Still, I tend to agree with Dale. The fact that you will try to influence them before and not after doesn't mean anything. You still try to influence people by saying how much you are a fan and why it's right/wrong.

I'd almost like it better if you had said that you'd still try to get them to change their minds afterwards. Just because people have the word director next to their name doesn't mean they know whats best for the activity.

[Dale Bari]

I responded to this.... This was made in reference to DCI deciding to remove amps or electronics. That means AFTER they made their vote. At that point my job as an audience member is to be a fan and enjoy the shows.

So, your "yes" response to me was ONLY in reference to a hypothetical vote on removal of electronics/amps. And, at any other time, you WOULD express your opinion to the DCI BoD and also post such opinions on DCP (and elsewhere). So, how does that make you different than us, except that you currently are happy with DCI, and we are not?

And, that still makes a lie of your statement that your "job" is to sit and watch and enjoy drum corps, not lobby the DCI BoD to do things that you'd like. (Heavens, no - those're only the dreadful things that silly "legacy" fans do.)

Or, that makes a lie of your recommendation of, after the vote, all debate ceases - forever. Because if that were the case, then once amplification was defeated the first time, by that reasoning it should never have been brought up again. Ditto for woodwinds (or saxophones, to be precise). Ditto for any-key brass. Ditto for most changes that have occurred over the years.

Ah, consistency - it's a wonderful thing! Thanks for playing.

[kusankusho]

Yes, you are confused, I guess.

thanks for the explanation....

[Tom Brace]

so how is any of this related to the OP in the thread?

This just seems to be becoming an attack of DCI and that's it. Wrapped in the red herring of an apparantly lacking void.

End the ridiculousness....there's a separate forum for DCA topics and folks can go there and attack DCI to no end.

Or, if your purpose is to attack DCI then call the thread what it really is.

A thinly vieled attempt to attack DCI.

And every single argument made has been refuted except for say, one. DCI does obligate corps to accept a tour schedule and I believe corps should have more voice in setting their schedule. So, I think many of us agree on this point. But that doesn't stop all the kvetching about "I don't like amps." I get it. You don't like amps. Noted. Let's move on to perhaps another salient point. Oh, you have no more? Ok...then let's move on.

[Dale Bari]

so how is any of this related to the OP in the thread?

This just seems to be becoming an attack of DCI and that's it. Wrapped in the red herring of an apparantly lacking void.

End the ridiculousness....there's a separate forum for DCA topics and folks can go there and attack DCI to no end.

Or, if your purpose is to attack DCI then call the thread what it really is.

A thinly vieled attempt to attack DCI.

And every single argument made has been refuted except for say, one. DCI does obligate corps to accept a tour schedule and I believe corps should have more voice in setting their schedule. So, I think many of us agree on this point. But that doesn't stop all the kvetching about "I don't like amps." I get it. You don't like amps. Noted. Let's move on to perhaps another salient point. Oh, you have no more? Ok...then let's move on.

Well, since you're just butting in here simply to have something to say.... (Or did you really think that yours is such a detached, objective, peaceful demeanor that simply by waving your intimidating intellect, we mere mortals would actually stop our insignificant whining?)

Actually, none of the above conversation to which (I think) you are referring has to do with DCI. (We are dealing with a certain aspect of slavishly following DCI's lead versus actually having an independent opinion.) DCI does what it does. We here on DCP debate that "what" to death, until DCI gives us something new to debate - which happens rather infrequently, when you think about it.

What are you talking about, "amps"? If that's what you thought the point of the prior discussion was, you need to get your glasses checked, sir.

I personally don't "attack" DCI, or haven't you read me closely? I either enjoy what DCI corps do, or I don't. I either agree with what DCI does, or I don't. I haven't ever actually emailed DCI to lobby them for anything. It's a waste of time, 'cuz they do what they like, and I can't affect that very much. I do like to debate the pros and cons, but that's more a theoretical thing for me than an actual "attack" on DCI. I like to attack weak opinions and faulty logic that people use to discuss things DCI does, but that's not the same thing. So, back off, pal!

Now, as to the relevance to the thread? I admit, it at best is tangential, but I think I can relate it nonetheless: What can complaining about things here actually accomplish? Well, as Joey said, it's a way to hone the arguments one may use to propose something to DCI in the future. It can be a way to find the one silver bullet that may effect the change we seek. Who knows?

As for "every single argument made has been refuted", I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe you can scrape up a tote board or something and show the class what we missed. The way I see it, your opinion has been noted, Joey's opinion has been noted, the battle lines were drawn, everyone took up sides, and a lot of "sound and fury, signifying nothing" commenced and maybe has thankfully ended. So, then this round is over. Someone else can start up another thread, and we'll go at it for the next round.

Tom, yours is a poor place from which to try to be the "voice of reason" here. It's rather unbecoming of you to try to play referee. Players can't wear a team's colors and zebra stripes at the same time.

[kusankusho]

End the ridiculousness....there's a separate forum for DCA topics and folks can go there and attack DCI to no end.

So - just curious - why do you keep reading it?

[MikeM]

I would love to see DCI return to the older format for finals: Have Div II/III finals done by quarters for Div 1. Then, allow the top 3 from Div II/III compete in quarters or however it worked. Don't make it mandatory, but let them have the option of competing.

Let the kids who win Div II/III have another day to competitively perform their show. It also allowed those Div II corps who were considering the jump to Div I know if they're ready.

The format now stinks.

(And yes, I know its open and world class and whatever. I'm non-conformist! )