DCA is "filling a void" left by DCI's Super Corps Model

[JimF-LowBari]

I love the stability that DCA has realized over the years. I can hardly wait to go to a show this Summer and see The Skyliners, Sunrisers, Westshoremen and Les Metropolitans compete for the title.

Looks like your post got cut off before you could list the corps DCI lost over the same time period. I just know you were trying to give an open minded idea here.

Now how about listing the corps both have gained over the years.

As I believe MikeD posted a while back, you always lost corps due to various reasons. What changed over the years is the inability for new corps to replace the loss. Since DCA changed thier focus to include the Class A (smaller) corps and the Minis about ten years ago they have seen a growth in NEW field corps. Is this a long term trend, only time will tell. But it is certainly near impossible for a large corps to be created from scratch due to costs. And IMO, DCI is concentrating on the big corps that bring in the money and kind of ignoring smaller corps that can bring long term stability.

Edited March 7, 2008 by JimF-3rdBari

[Kyle B]

Also, don't forget that Skyliners still have an alumni corps, plus the Skyliners will still be competing at Mini-corps, and Westshoremen still have an alumni group that gets together.

[Donny Drum Corps]

Pioneer is a model for all of you guys to consider. Perennially less than 100 members strong, but not backing down from anyone. There is a realization that on most years, the corps could possibly not beat any otner corps. They have stuck to their origianl identity, (IRISH), and have continued to do the World Class tour every year.

But Alas, even Roman knows that coming in 20th or lower every year is not helping the corps to recruit any extremely talented kids over 16-17 years old. It is always a tough winter, and the corps never knows what they will have on the field until all day move ins, which puts them at a slower start than their competitors that have their shows well under way by then. I cant even give the drill writer numbers until after the late April camp.

But, say what you want you want about Roman and his hat, he puts a corps out every year, whether the kids from BD or Cavies, et al look down on them or not. It is a GREAT experience for students that cant make those corps however, some can but still choose loyalty until aged out.

That is why I teach there. I am on my way to Milwaukee to teach whomever makes this camp. I will continue to recruit until Memorial Day and hope for the best with membership. The corps is already booked in a full tour of World Class shows, so if you see them on the road, give them props for being there.

Donny

[MikeD]

Many have tried, few even get a reply, nobody sees any results.

I have seen lots of great results. Electronics has now passed, for one. Do you think DCI passed them because I asked them nicely to pass them, as I did?

[MikeD]

Which king should people try to persuade?

And what if the king knows all and refuses to listen....

Or....as is more likely the case, IMO...what if the king thinks that what is being said is just plain wrong?

[kusankusho]

I have seen lots of great results. Electronics has now passed, for one. Do you think DCI passed them because I asked them nicely to pass them, as I did?

You didn't have to do a thing - Hoppy was already on it. Obviously these are not the results I'm pursuing.

[JimF-LowBari]

Or....as is more likely the case, IMO...what if the king thinks that what is being said is just plain wrong?

LOL, had that in the back of my mind as I posted. But couldn't think of a way to be sarcastic without starting a mini flame war.

Seriously, my concern is what happens if a change causes problems with some corps. Will DCI be willing to roll back the rule for the sake of all corps or keep on rollin' because some corps have it "right". Off the top of my head, only example would be the 'options' that add costs to corps.

[Dale Bari]

Which king should people try to persuade?

And what if the king knows all and refuses to listen....

Or....as is more likely the case, IMO...what if the king thinks that what is being said is just plain wrong?

Robin Williams (in Pres Reagan parody voice):"Where would our country be without this great land of ours?"

Robin Williams (as himself):"Mr. President, in the dictionary under 'redundant', it says, "See 'redundant'.""

Reagan parody: "Well, you can say that again!"

[Dale Bari]

I have seen lots of great results. Electronics has now passed, for one. Do you think DCI passed them because I asked them nicely to pass them, as I did?

Well, that's the simplicity of your position: If you cede all decision-making to someone else, then you don't have to do anything about it - including think for yourself. No nuance needed, no accommodation of inconvenient ideas, very straight-forward: If DCI likes it, I'm for it. This position isn't very courageous; you're simply betting that DCI will not do something unexpected. There's nothing wrong with that, but it is kinda, well, lazy.

DCI says, "We want X number valves." You say, "Great!"

DCI says, "We want a new key for the brass." You say, "Great!"

DCI says, "We want amplification & electronics!" You say, "Great!"

What happens if, in a few years, DCI says, "We don't like how this whole electronics thing is working out, we're going to repeal it."?** All along, you've been assuming that they continue moving the way you like. (There's that "ratchet theory of history" that I've mentioned from time to time: change only moves in one direction.) To remain consistent, you must swallow hard and say, "Great!"

More likely, you'll feel the way the rest of us feel now and want to do something about it, which would require you to reverse your long-held position.

All in all, however, I think you're actually in a very safe place. DCI is no more likely to change their minds than you are. Then again, nothing lasts forever - ask "Speaker of the House" Dick Gephardt. (Ooooooo! That'll leave a mark!)

** - The aforementioned repeal's not likely. Even if it truly isn't working out, the most likely result is DCI just ignores the rule allowing them, rather than get rid of it.

[Dale Bari]

Pioneer is a model for all of you guys to consider. Perennially less than 100 members strong, but not backing down from anyone. There is a realization that on most years, the corps could possibly not beat any otner corps. They have stuck to their origianl identity, (IRISH), and have continued to do the World Class tour every year.

But Alas, even Roman knows that coming in 20th or lower every year is not helping the corps to recruit any extremely talented kids over 16-17 years old. It is always a tough winter, and the corps never knows what they will have on the field until all day move ins, which puts them at a slower start than their competitors that have their shows well under way by then. I cant even give the drill writer numbers until after the late April camp.

But, say what you want you want about Roman and his hat, he puts a corps out every year, whether the kids from BD or Cavies, et al look down on them or not. It is a GREAT experience for students that cant make those corps however, some can but still choose loyalty until aged out.

That is why I teach there. I am on my way to Milwaukee to teach whomever makes this camp. I will continue to recruit until Memorial Day and hope for the best with membership. The corps is already booked in a full tour of World Class shows, so if you see them on the road, give them props for being there.

Donny

DA,

I know your fondness for that corps, and you make a great point. It's tough to be the iconoclast, to buck the gale winds of trends and attitudes. Everyone associated with the Pioneer org deserves props for making such stand.

But, it takes a lot of courage and stamina to maintain that position without getting beaten down. And, somehow Pioneer has to make it work and climb up the competitive ladder, else they give up or give in. I use the Madison Scouts of the mid-late 90's (and into the 00's). They were the one corps that sailed into the teeth of the winds of change, determined like Magellan to navigate the storms of the Cape Horn, and eventually even they got beat down. Instead of giving up, they gave in.

Conventional Wisdom says you gotta play the game well or you go home. Most everyone who's tried to play the DCI game has gone home. The ones who succeeded are still there, in the smallest pool of jr corps ever. I think Joey's point is, Conventional Wisdom is wrong: there is a different option, if you want to take it. Tom's point is, since no one has, maybe it's not the option Joey thinks it is. And, I think that describes the battles lines pretty succinctly. Everything else in this thread is mere window-dressing.