1975 Muchachos

[Drumss]

For the legal age members in Hawthorne, this must have been the most tearing jerking, gut wrenching ending to a season for all time. Years later, SCV also had a few overage members (from Europe) and when their real age was discovered, they were thrown out of the corps very late in the season. Bayonne got bagged before prelims in Denver in 1977, got an injunction from a local judge, were allowed to compete in both prelims and finals. After the season, they accepted their DQ and their scores are stricken from the DCI records. You can find their scores elsewhere on the web.

So, if your question was legit, if you were curious, that's my 2 cents - having experienced it first hand, albeit from an arm's length away.

LancerLegend, I always find your comments on this topic to be insightful and thoughtful.... I agree with you that there were a number of truly great corps that year, you folks in 27th, Santa Clara, the "new kids" Blue Devils, Madison and others... the only score we ever found out was the field drum score (19.3), but the rest shall forever be committed to history as a mistake on the part of my corps' management at that time.... it's really too bad though, because from my perspective it didn't have to happen at all... I know a bunch of players who wanted spots in the corps who weren't overage...whatever

[DAvery]

Crossmen were DQ'd for the same reason in another year, since they were not in the hunt, this chapter is less that a sentence in DCI's history.

Weren't the Crossmen DQ'd in 76 for the remainder of the season for marching an overage member in June? I always thought that was interesting.

[LancerLegend]

LancerLegend, I always find your comments on this topic to be insightful and thoughtful....

Wow....you're making me feel old but I do appreciate the kind words. Unless a topic affects me and my corps, I try to remain neutral.

The funny thing about drum corps and the age of 21 - it was suppose to tie into the age of being legal, and we were somehow supposed to be instantly mature the day we turned 21. As if.

IIRC - the age limit was "you had to be 21 the day of prelims" - although prelims and finals was a day or two apart - I guess you could be 22 the day of finals. I think DCI recently raised the age limit - but I need someone to verify that.

I am quite certain that WGI - the winter guard circuit - raised the age to 25 several years ago. Not sure why? Was it to help units retain kids until they could recruit new members?

All I know it this - after marching at the highest level for 4 years - it takes a toll - and by the time I was 21, I looked forward to aging out. Winning CYO Nationals that year, PRICELESS.

[A27Lancer]

All I know is this - after marching at the highest level for 4 years - it takes a toll - and by the time I was 21, I looked forward to aging out. Winning CYO Nationals that year, PRICELESS.

Yes, it was truly priceless! Few remember what that title meant (especially coming off a tour that meant losing to some of those corps by twenty points). CYO Nationals was a unique show - only the greats qualified and were invited.

As far as aging out - I, too, was ready at 21. Enough was enough, and I was ready to teach rather than march. Those corps disqualified for overage members - - - I think they were caught and the fact that they had one or two overage members didn't matter in the big picture. They were great corps regardless... who knows what other corps had overagers during that era. Muchachos never got over it, and although they competed subsequent to the disqualification, they were never at the same level. Bridgemen and Crossmen went on to achieve greatness. Who knows?

[Puppet]

Yes, it was truly priceless! Few remember what that title meant (especially coming off a tour that meant losing to some of those corps by twenty points). CYO Nationals was a unique show - only the greats qualified and were invited.

As far as aging out - I, too, was ready at 21. Enough was enough, and I was ready to teach rather than march. Those corps disqualified for overage members - - - I think they were caught and the fact that they had one or two overage members didn't matter in the big picture. They were great corps regardless... who knows what other corps had overagers during that era. Muchachos never got over it, and although they competed subsequent to the disqualification, they were never at the same level. Bridgemen and Crossmen went on to achieve greatness. Who knows?

My confession: In 1972 I was 22.

I'd been with the Brassmen from the time we'd been kicked out of the St. Joseph parish in Brooklyn. After the '71 season, it was a very tough choice to continue or not because we were after all a Catholic Youth Organization.

I went to our Moderator Father Dominic Schiraldi and talked it out with him and his advise was that I should do what was best for myself and for the Corps. Great! And I struggled with it all through winter rehearsals.

With the return of one of the great OTL, Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries IMHO to our rep and all the Leonard Bernstein tunes from West Side Story made it even harder - but when Hy introduced us to the Three Blind Mice At Carnegie Hall as our concert piece, I was done.

We had, for us, a glorious year (only placed 5th at the CYO Nationals and the only bad thing was that Blue Rock beat us!) I think I was the only overage kid in the corps that year and I would have never been caught because I was still being "carded" when I was in my late twenties! That was really the telling thing: I looked like a baby!

Side note to the age thing - NYC had a drinking age of 18 until I turned 18 and then they changed it to 21!

Oh, the irony!

And speaking of irony … The World Open that year - you must remember this: We came in second just .250 away from the first place Muchachos and just .250 ahead of the third place Kilties during the prelims: The Kilts ran away with the finals by a little under 4 points. But as Lancer Legend has said: My being overage did not change the big picture. We do stupid, dangerous and / or otherwise un-wise things when we're young because we are young. I'm glad I marched that year. I'm even happier I didn't hurt my Corps by my actions - no one knew but Father Schiraldi - and apparently he wasn't telling. I did not march 1973.

Puppet

[flugelswerebugels]

My confession: In 1972 I was 22.

I'd been with the Brassmen from the time we'd been kicked out of the St. Joseph parish in Brooklyn. After the '71 season, it was a very tough choice to continue or not because we were after all a Catholic Youth Organization.

I went to our Moderator Father Dominic Schiraldi and talked it out with him and his advise was that I should do what was best for myself and for the Corps. Great! And I struggled with it all through winter rehearsals.

With the return of one of the great OTL, Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries IMHO to our rep and all the Leonard Bernstein tunes from West Side Story made it even harder - but when Hy introduced us to the Three Blind Mice At Carnegie Hall as our concert piece, I was done.

We had, for us, a glorious year (only placed 5th at the CYO Nationals and the only bad thing was that Blue Rock beat us!) I think I was the only overage kid in the corps that year and I would have never been caught because I was still being "carded" when I was in my late twenties! That was really the telling thing: I looked like a baby!

Side note to the age thing - NYC had a drinking age of 18 until I turned 18 and then they changed it to 21!

Oh, the irony!

And speaking of irony … The World Open that year - you must remember this: We came in second just .250 away from the first place Muchachos and just .250 ahead of the third place Kilties during the prelims: The Kilts ran away with the finals by a little under 4 points. But as Lancer Legend has said: My being overage did not change the big picture. We do stupid, dangerous and / or otherwise un-wise things when we're young because we are young. I'm glad I marched that year. I'm even happier I didn't hurt my Corps by my actions - no one knew but Father Schiraldi - and apparently he wasn't telling. I did not march 1973.

Puppet

UH OH, now someone is going to start a new thread on "Puppet and the Brassmen 1972 scandal" (see DCI thread on BD 2007).

[IntheMood]

We may never know where The Muchachos finished at the 75 Prelims. But all one has to do is look what happened just 4 days before at CYO Nationals and I think this may give some an idea where they may have finished at Philly. It seemed to me that the Muchachos all most always made a move up from Prelims to Finals. Anyways, Some will agree that as the season moved on The Muchachos and the Scouts were the Corps to beat that year. It is just sad to me that some of these young kats may never get to hear the 75 Muchachos. 33 years is long enough. Mr. Boo or anyone else, do you know if there are any recordings from the 75 Prelims? If so what can we do as Fans of the Drum and Bugle Corps Activity to get DCI to release the recordings for all to hear and see? I could care less about what happened back in the day. That was 33 years ago.

[Fastone]

My confession: In 1972 I was 22.

I'd been with the Brassmen from the time we'd been kicked out of the St. Joseph parish in Brooklyn. After the '71 season, it was a very tough choice to continue or not because we were after all a Catholic Youth Organization.

I went to our Moderator Father Dominic Schiraldi and talked it out with him and his advise was that I should do what was best for myself and for the Corps. Great! And I struggled with it all through winter rehearsals.

With the return of one of the great OTL, Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries IMHO to our rep and all the Leonard Bernstein tunes from West Side Story made it even harder - but when Hy introduced us to the Three Blind Mice At Carnegie Hall as our concert piece, I was done.

We had, for us, a glorious year (only placed 5th at the CYO Nationals and the only bad thing was that Blue Rock beat us!) I think I was the only overage kid in the corps that year and I would have never been caught because I was still being "carded" when I was in my late twenties! That was really the telling thing: I looked like a baby!

Side note to the age thing - NYC had a drinking age of 18 until I turned 18 and then they changed it to 21!

Oh, the irony!

And speaking of irony … The World Open that year - you must remember this: We came in second just .250 away from the first place Muchachos and just .250 ahead of the third place Kilties during the prelims: The Kilts ran away with the finals by a little under 4 points. But as Lancer Legend has said: My being overage did not change the big picture. We do stupid, dangerous and / or otherwise un-wise things when we're young because we are young. I'm glad I marched that year. I'm even happier I didn't hurt my Corps by my actions - no one knew but Father Schiraldi - and apparently he wasn't telling. I did not march 1973.

Puppet

Hey Puppet:

Just a minor correction, we played "Three Blind Mice at Symphony Hall in "71" also the drinking age in NYC was 21 until after the Vietnam war ended. You did look quite young back in the day though (lol)

[Old School Contra Guy]

I HAD a copy of 75 Muchachos from prelims for years, AND a copy of the 77 Bridgemen from finals (before they were released by DCI later) but the tapes have been either lost or destroyed over the years. Let's just say, they were from the MASTER tapes. I was sworn to secrecy where they came from.

[LancerLegend]

.......or anyone else, do you know if there are any recordings from the 75 Prelims?...

The only vinyl recording of 75 Hawthorne is from Fleetwood Records at the World Open. Someone bought the Fleetwood archives, and is selling CD's. You can do a Google search and find their stuff online. I recently bought the 71 World Open and 71 Dream CD's. AWESOME BABY !

I HAD a copy of 75 Muchachos from prelims for years, AND a copy of the 77 Bridgemen from finals (before they were released by DCI later) but the tapes have been either lost or destroyed over the years. Let's just say, they were from the MASTER tapes. I was sworn to secrecy where they came from.

The only vinyl recording of 77 Bridgemen is from the UOEC Championships that year. Bayonne did not make a DCI recording that year. I don't know if there are any CD's available.