Sal Rosenburg Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Here's my theory. Take it as you will...The last time we Minnesota corps performed were in front of DCI judges a month ago. In fact, we haven't actually seen a DCA panel until this weekend. So, understandably, the judges are a bit unfamiliar with our show when they see us for the first time ever on Saturday. The next day, they mix things up a bit and play musical chairs with the captions they're judging, but they're more familiar with our shows. They know what to look for, and they know where to find those moments and high points to give us credit for that they may have missed out on the day before. Unlike the NE, where shows are consistently every weekend and judges see the corps in a gradual progression and get familiar with them over a longer period of time, our shows are in small, tight bunches. The judges need to familiarize themselves with our shows the first night as well as critique them, and then the next night reevaluate them now that they're more familiar with them. And then the same thing will happen all over again three weeks from now for the Minnesota shows because we have this vast stretch of time between shows to make tweaks and improvements. Just my two cents on the subject. I could be wrong. I would have to say there are plenty of first reads every weekend in DCA and every night in DCI that go unanswered with an overnight reward of 1.4 Either you guys are great at critique s or you've found a formula in the Midwest that hasn' t been found yet on the east or west coast.the judges are supposed to evaluate each performance equally based on the sheets so they must have of been off on sat and got it right on Sunday.DCA judges are weak .My opinion of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit_Girl_77 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Here's my theory. Take it as you will...The last time we Minnesota corps performed were in front of DCI judges a month ago. In fact, we haven't actually seen a DCA panel until this weekend. So, understandably, the judges are a bit unfamiliar with our show when they see us for the first time ever on Saturday. The next day, they mix things up a bit and play musical chairs with the captions they're judging, but they're more familiar with our shows. They know what to look for, and they know where to find those moments and high points to give us credit for that they may have missed out on the day before. Unlike the NE, where shows are consistently every weekend and judges see the corps in a gradual progression and get familiar with them over a longer period of time, our shows are in small, tight bunches. The judges need to familiarize themselves with our shows the first night as well as critique them, and then the next night reevaluate them now that they're more familiar with them. And then the same thing will happen all over again three weeks from now for the Minnesota shows because we have this vast stretch of time between shows to make tweaks and improvements. Just my two cents on the subject. I could be wrong. Nope-I think you are right! Same thing will (Hopefully) happen in the south with Nashville show and 2 in the Atlanta area in the upcoming weeks. It looks like anyone in class "A" looking to make it to the big show will need to be pushing "80"...I guess I better get some more sectionals going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scerpella Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Is it just me, or are DCA judges the best on the planet? Because I don't think any other corps, including DCI who go head to head each night, jump 1.5 points overnight (MBI) . What is the reasoning behind this? To boost averages or to keep them in the hunt after hearing Saturday night's scores? The last 3-4 years the opposite has happened with the Sunday show scores dropping anywhere from 1-3 points from Saturday. How is that any less unlikely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Rosenburg Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 (edited) exactly my point .If the judges got it right the first night there would have been little change either way.The judges are notorious for not getting it right the first time . Edited July 28, 2008 by Sal Rosenburg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dolphin6704 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Why don't you guys judge then. Maybe the complaining will stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit_Girl_77 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 I think you guys are assuming the Saturday and Sunday shows put on by the corps are identical to each other. I am pretty sure most groups act like GCS on a 2 show weekend: after the first night we listen to the tapes and watch video, make a list of the most important stuff to address, get about 7 hours of sleep, run 4-5 hours of practice, break for food and showers, then get ready to hit the field again for the judges. If all goes to plan, things are clearned up from the previous show by at least a full point, hopefully more. One reality that hits: the lack of sleep/downtime (Or "horizontal time" as Jason likes to say) that can make folks not put their best performance on the field. This could lead to a drop in scores the 2nd night. Other factors: folks getting sick/injured, equipment issues with no time to fix, delayed flights causing folks to miss the first show, and other random things that seem to come up that would make one show different from the other. If I saw a corps get almost the same score two nights in a row, I would figure they were being slotted somewhere, or that the judges knew what the score was "supposed" to be before they took the field. No two shows are ever identical. Just my $.02... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ CVmellophone Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Well don't look for DCI judges to be the best! Not exactly sure how you can have the best performance you've had all season and get tanked 30 points in brass by a judge who basically said we'd never see him at a DCA show so what did it matter. Yes......a formal complaint is in the works! I heard you guys from the batter's box while we were waiting to go on and I was impressed with what I heard. Our folks in the stands said it was a powerful show and the crowd dug it- standing "O's" for our friends at MCL from the crowd. My wife and I were sitting adjacent to a group of about 20 MCL members during retreat and saw their disappointment when the score was announced. When our score was announced Abbi and I cheered for our DM, Marvin but quickly tempered our excitement. I'm in my 11th year marching with CorpsVets and I know, all to well, the feelings that were evident on all those young faces sitting across from us. These young adults conducted themselves professionally. My dad always offered pretty simple advice to me when I was growing up: Tomorrow is another day. We're looking forward a great competition next week in TN and even greater camaraderie with our friends in Music City Legend! See you all in the cafeteria for some BBQ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL_Contra Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 (edited) Why don't you guys judge then. Maybe the complaining will stop. I'm not saying that I'm a trained judge......but that is my point also. All of these judges are supposed to be trained to do what they do. Personal opinion or bias is NOT supposed to be a part of their scoring process. However, I have seen it all too often where a judge simply doesn't like a show and tanks the score because of that opinion no matter how well you performed. And it is even worse when they do that with no expaination as to why. Thank you RJ. I don't mean to sound bitter but I guess it's hard not to be. We will move on and put this show behind us. We look forward to seeing you guys this weekend. Edited July 28, 2008 by MCL_Contra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Rosenburg Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 not complaining just wondering how DCA gets away with it .Everyone looks at the scores and recaps and this just says HEY WE DIDNT GET IT RIGHT OOPS OUR BAD.Last year at DCA finals there were at least five corps that had first reads coming in to prelims imagine if they needed two reads to get an honest evaluation hmmmm.So I am not complaining because i don t march just want the" STANDINGS" to be correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scerpella Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 not complaining just wondering how DCA gets away with it .Everyone looks at the scores and recaps and this just says HEY WE DIDNT GET IT RIGHT OOPS OUR BAD.Last year at DCA finals there were at least five corps that had first reads coming in to prelims imagine if they needed two reads to get an honest evaluation hmmmm.So I am not complaining because i don t march just want the" STANDINGS" to be correct Good points, but eastern corps get their judging "mulligans" back in June when things havent yet begun to develop. Because of the nature of the activity, Midwestern, Southern, and Western corps start out in DCI shows and dont get read by DCA judges until July, in our case late July. Eastern corps then enjoy the ability to go head to head in DCA for much of the summer. Everyone else has to hope they bring their A game when they are read for the fiest time or they face having to fight back from one subpar performance. We just dont get the continuity the East does and judges cant necessarily see the improvement and implemetation of their suggestions like they can with corps they see on a more regular basis. My feeling is that the same panel saw us twice in one weekend and the Sunday scores reflect an informed evaluation. And as has been mentioned previously, many of us just plain had better performances Sunday. This year (for once) our second read came off better than the first, as it did with the three MN corps who performed with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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